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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: "Gratton Trade" for Weber Makes Financial & Hockey Sense
Author Message
stveshdy
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.28.2010

Jul 23 @ 11:32 AM ET

So my question is by Wednesdays deadline is Weber in a Flyers uniform?

Yes or No?
sulshawn
Joined: 07.28.2008

Jul 23 @ 11:32 AM ET
the Preds have a history of drafting good D men and are in desperate need for a top center. I am confident that a center has to be returned in this deal. I know you guys dont want to hear this but I think its the Schenn Bros. I wish Nashville would take 4 firsts but with the flyers future those picks could be high seconds
- vejim


Yea, I think ownership has to realize we haven't gotten past the 2nd round with Weber and Suter on lower level deals, maybe its time to move on and not make that kind of investment fo $26 million or so over the next year...But let's see what we can get and if we can land maybe the Schenn Brothers we have a top center and a top 4 defenseman plus picks we can use to maybe acquire J-Bo.

They would be past cap floor, have players under contract without having to pay ridiculous signing bonuses. Who knows, they could build a team that can go to WC finals or Cup finals
sulshawn
Joined: 07.28.2008

Jul 23 @ 11:33 AM ET
So my question is by Wednesdays deadline is Weber in a Flyers uniform?

Yes or No?

- stveshdy


Yes, Schenn Brotehrs won't be IMO
2731color
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 07.17.2007

Jul 23 @ 11:33 AM ET
Great summation by Bill. Not a big fan of playing chicken when so much hangs in the balance. Homer and Snider have nothing to prove, they've both made their bones. They will do what it takes to get a deal done and it might surprise people. On the other hand it's all speculation.
NickTheKid87
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 11.19.2010

Jul 23 @ 11:33 AM ET
So my question is by Wednesdays deadline is Weber in a Flyers uniform?

Yes or No?

- stveshdy


All things considered, yes.
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

Jul 23 @ 11:34 AM ET
So my question is by Wednesdays deadline is Weber in a Flyers uniform?

Yes or No?

- stveshdy

Being that this has drug out so long I'd say yes.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jul 23 @ 11:35 AM ET
So my question is by Wednesdays deadline is Weber in a Flyers uniform?

Yes or No?

- stveshdy


I lean towards yes.
twotoekenn
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: perkasie, PA
Joined: 12.16.2009

Jul 23 @ 11:35 AM ET
Can people please stop suggesting that the preds match and then trade him after next season? Makes no effin sense! On one hand these guys are saying the pr hit is going to kill the team if he leaves and then say we can just trade him after year one of contract. Whats worse, losing him for picks maybe some players from flyers, or paying him 26+mil and then trading him to the list of teams he will allow? He's going to get a nmc in his contract, no big time contract doesn't include them anymore.
RooNosHockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bear, DE
Joined: 10.25.2011

Jul 23 @ 11:36 AM ET
the Preds have a history of drafting good D men and are in desperate need for a top center. I am confident that a center has to be returned in this deal. I know you guys dont want to hear this but I think its the Schenn Bros. I wish Nashville would take 4 firsts but with the flyers future those picks could be high seconds
- vejim


Briere can play wing as can Schenn. So this "overload" at center is nothing to base a trade off of. I do not want to trade the Schenn Bros, or Couturier. I would rather not have Weber at that price. Now if a trade does go down, I will understand why it was made, but I would rather it be V and Mez.
FlyersGrace
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Pronger "Play the game puffnuts!" , DE
Joined: 07.02.2012

Jul 23 @ 11:37 AM ET
I want to be a simple scout. Travelling around watching games...heaven
- Jsaquella


Speaking of scouts can they throw in some of their scouts into the trade? I'm sure we'll sweeten the deal if we get Weber and some of the scouts who keep getting them these incredible blueliners!
stveshdy
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.28.2010

Jul 23 @ 11:37 AM ET
It seems as if Lubomir Visnovsky doesn't want to be an Islander, and he filed a grievance through the NHL Players' Association to void his trade that sent him there on June 22, according to Newsday's Arthur Staple. The defenseman had a no-trade clause in his contract when he was dealt to Anaheim from Edmonton in March of 2010, and he never utilized it then, so he may be too late to use it now, according to Staple. Anaheim will oppose the grievance in the hearing -- if Visnovsky wins, he'll be back with the Ducks, and if he loses, he'll remain with the Islanders. The 35-year-old has one year remaining on his contract at $3 million.
Source: Arthur Staple on Twitter
BulliesPhan87
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the lone wolf of hockeybuzz
Joined: 07.31.2009

Jul 23 @ 11:38 AM ET
So my question is by Wednesdays deadline is Weber in a Flyers uniform?

Yes or No?

- stveshdy

Yes, the Flyers are in too deep to let Weber go now.
FlyerMike18
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 03.07.2009

Jul 23 @ 11:38 AM ET
Can people please stop suggesting that the preds match and then trade him after next season? Makes no effin sense! On one hand these guys are saying the pr hit is going to kill the team if he leaves and then say we can just trade him after year one of contract. Whats worse, losing him for picks maybe some players from flyers, or paying him 26+mil and then trading him to the list of teams he will allow? He's going to get a nmc in his contract, no big time contract doesn't include them anymore.
- twotoekenn


from what i understand, no trade restrictions in the contract if he winds up in nashville

and if they match with an intent to trade later, no one said it has to be immediately when the one year is up
flyer_nutter
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Unleash the Peanuts, MB
Joined: 10.16.2008

Jul 23 @ 11:40 AM ET
It seems as if Lubomir Visnovsky doesn't want to be an Islander, and he filed a grievance through the NHL Players' Association to void his trade that sent him there on June 22, according to Newsday's Arthur Staple. The defenseman had a no-trade clause in his contract when he was dealt to Anaheim from Edmonton in March of 2010, and he never utilized it then, so he may be too late to use it now, according to Staple. Anaheim will oppose the grievance in the hearing -- if Visnovsky wins, he'll be back with the Ducks, and if he loses, he'll remain with the Islanders. The 35-year-old has one year remaining on his contract at $3 million.
Source: Arthur Staple on Twitter

- stveshdy


Love Lubo.

Similar player/game to Kimmo.
RooNosHockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bear, DE
Joined: 10.25.2011

Jul 23 @ 11:40 AM ET
from what i understand, no trade restrictions in the contract if he winds up in nashville

and if they match with an intent to trade later, no one said it has to be immediately when the one year is up

- FlyerMike18


If they sign him, what is the point in trading him?
flyer_nutter
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Unleash the Peanuts, MB
Joined: 10.16.2008

Jul 23 @ 11:41 AM ET
Yes, the Flyers are in too deep to let Weber go now.
- BulliesPhan87


In the end, unless they are giving up Giroux I will be happy either way.


spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 23 @ 11:41 AM ET
Being able to match is one thing. All that takes is being able to write a $13mm check, which the owners of Nashville certainly can do.

However, there's a ripple effect on them for that payment. That amount of money committed to one guy will draw away from other areas of the team and organization.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's the best course of action to pursue.

It really boils down to this, can the Flyers be content to not get Weber after the whole offer sheet process and being close enough to taste it?

- Jsaquella


There is a great line in the movie "House of Sand and Fog" where the father says to his son "be careful he is a weak man and therefore very dangerous." A moment later the weak man in a panic shoots the son.

People need to understand that it because the Predators are perceived as weak they must do something very strong. They have no choice in terms of their sponsors, season ticket holders and fans. I believe Holmgren knows that the entire fan base of the NHL is encouraging the weak man to shoot. He needs to be very careful because they will match if pushed.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jul 23 @ 11:41 AM ET
from what i understand, no trade restrictions in the contract if he winds up in nashville

and if they match with an intent to trade later, no one said it has to be immediately when the one year is up

- FlyerMike18


There can be nothing in an offer sheet besides money & term. The NTC/NMC can be added when the contract is finalized.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jul 23 @ 11:43 AM ET
There is a great line in the movie "House of Sand and Fog" where the father says to his son "be careful he is a weak man and therefore very dangerous." A moment later the weak man in a panic shoots the son.

People need to understand that it because the Predators are perceived as weak they must do something very strong. They have no choice in terms of their sponsors, season ticket holders and fans. I believe Holmgren knows that the entire fan base of the NHL is encouraging the weak man to shoot. He needs to be very careful because they will match if pushed.

- spatso


It's true, because when pushed people might make decisions that they will regret or wouldn;t make under normal circumstances.

I'm not sold they have a deal in place, but the Flyers want Weber too badly to be willing to risk Nashville matching without exhausting the options.
FlyerMike18
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 03.07.2009

Jul 23 @ 11:44 AM ET
If they sign him, what is the point in trading him?
- RooNosHockey


80 million dollars and getting fair value

not saying they will do that. but it's not as outlandish as people are suggesting. they could determine that biting the bullet for a short time is worth it to get fair value, even if they can't afford to pay him all of that money in the long run
FlyerMike18
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 03.07.2009

Jul 23 @ 11:44 AM ET
There can be nothing in an offer sheet besides money & term. The NTC/NMC can be added when the contract is finalized.
- Jsaquella


but if nashville matches they would have no incentive to give him one, right?
(unless it's to try and smooth over differences, and make him comfortable playing there? i guess i could see that)
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jul 23 @ 11:45 AM ET
but if nashville matches they would have no incentive to give him one, right?
- FlyerMike18


One incentive would be to prevent him from collecting a ton of cash up front and then holding out and demanding to be traded.
vejim
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: FL
Joined: 07.08.2007

Jul 23 @ 11:45 AM ET
just a little sick at the fact that we may lose either B Schenn or Coots. I feel one of these centers may be a super player in the future
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

Jul 23 @ 11:46 AM ET
just a little sick at the fact that we may lose either B Schenn or Coots. I feel one of these centers may be a super player in the future
- vejim

Weber is a super player in a position that makes more impact, imo.
watson1195
Joined: 02.23.2012

Jul 23 @ 11:46 AM ET
Good write up. I have been saying all along that Poile made some major mistakes in not locking up his players before they became RFA or UFA. It seems to me that it he waited for other teams to offer before matching or saying that he would match. If he was going to risk a lot of money for Suter and Weber, why not offer those terms LAST year. Instead, he played a waiting game. Like a poker player that bluffs all along with a possible Full House, he ends up with a pair of 2's and 3's. He got called and lost. If he went all in last year he probably would have won.
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