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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: "Gratton Trade" for Weber Makes Financial & Hockey Sense
Author Message
stveshdy
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.28.2010

Jul 23 @ 11:20 AM ET
I simultaneously feel that the Preds would scoff at that trade proposal and that the Flyers would ultimately regret trading Voracek when he blossoms into an NHL star.

Likewise, if Poile's position is so weak that he would be forced to settle for such a package of "lesser" players, then its probably weak enough where Homer could just offer him absolutely nothing and still end up with Shea Weber.

Preds' ownership is either prepared to match or they're not. If they are willing to bit the bullet, then there is virtually nothing that Homer can do, short of tabling a swath of untouchable assets, to change the outcome. If they've decided they can't match, Poile will posture, delay and feint in an attempt to erode the Flyers' position -- in any case, Homer would be best served by staying patient and letting events come to him.

- Tomahawk


Its Nashvilles move at this point.
thephillynut
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Joined: 01.06.2011

Jul 23 @ 11:20 AM ET
Ville Leino?
- NickTheKid87



isaiah520
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: "All train compartments smell vaguely of sh*t. It gets so you don't mind it"
Joined: 12.26.2006

Jul 23 @ 11:21 AM ET
All I can say is that come Wednesday at 11:31pm, there will be a lot of Crow being served up on this board and many people will be eating 2 or three portions.
Sure hope its not me.

- FlyersFirst

I have a location change in quotes ready if it goes our way
sulshawn
Joined: 07.28.2008

Jul 23 @ 11:21 AM ET
Imagine if the Flyers would of picked Olli Maatta with their pick instead of Laughton.....I bet the Preds would of been more then happy to get him as one of the trade pieces and it would of given the flyers a better chance at keeping Couts and Schenns!!!!!!
- Jack-Meoff


Yea I hear ya but at the draft, I really think the Flyers were trying to trade for Weber and had to consider a center could be moved. And probably wasn't exactly sure what could happen with JVR (maybe Nashville didn't want him in a deal) so he went back to Toronto to get a touted NHL defenseman Nashville would want to replace Weber
Jimmygrazz
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: South Jersey, NJ
Joined: 04.23.2010

Jul 23 @ 11:22 AM ET
There is no way you can pay a guy the same amount as you brought in all year in ticket sales IMO.
flyer_nutter
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Unleash the Peanuts, MB
Joined: 10.16.2008

Jul 23 @ 11:22 AM ET
The problem isn't whether Nashville can match or not. They can match. The key is can Nashville ice a competitive team if they do match?

If it comes down to a matter of pride, they may well match out of spite. If Holmgren offers an olive branch that helps them stay competitive, helps them get to the cap floor without having to bleed money to do it as well as save a little face in a PR aspect, it might make it easier for them to decline matching, and the Flyers get their guy.

The object of the excercise is to get Shea Weber in a Flyers jersey.

- Jsaquella


Thats the question to me.

If they can, then what has really changed? If the Predators can financially retain Weber why would they be willing to accept a lesser package, of the Schenn and Cooties one that was reported.

If they simply cannot match and pay him 26 million for the following season, then Holmgren has no need to play nice and give up anything more than four first rounders imo.

The thing in all of this though, is that Weber apparently wants out. Does that influence Nashville in any way?
Rustyblade
Nashville Predators
Location: Gallatin, TN
Joined: 11.16.2006

Jul 23 @ 11:23 AM ET
The deal presented in this blog would bring back a top six forward, a good D signed for a few years to come, an NHL-ready young D with rookie year out of way, plus a 2013 first-rounder plus not having to spend $26M just to get to point where Preds could trade Weber even w/o a no-trade. That's plenty when you keep that final part in mind, too.
- bmeltzer



I think the DP will be nervous about Mez back surgery after all we went through with Sullivan. I really think the issue in Nashville will be your average nashvillian will not recognize these names like they would others.
OrangeBlack27
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: i do, mike, PA
Joined: 06.29.2006

Jul 23 @ 11:23 AM ET
I simultaneously feel that the Preds would scoff at that trade proposal and that the Flyers would ultimately regret trading Voracek when he blossoms into an NHL star.

Likewise, if Poile's position is so weak that he would be forced to settle for such a package of "lesser" players, then its probably weak enough where Homer could just offer him absolutely nothing and still end up with Shea Weber.

Preds' ownership is either prepared to match or they're not. If they are willing to bit the bullet, then there is virtually nothing that Homer can do, short of tabling a swath of untouchable assets, to change the outcome. If they've decided they can't match, Poile will posture, delay and feint in an attempt to erode the Flyers' position -- in any case, Homer would be best served by staying patient and letting events come to him.

- Tomahawk


ye son
sulshawn
Joined: 07.28.2008

Jul 23 @ 11:24 AM ET
Will find out soon enough. The fact that they put in an offer sheet tells me their not willing to give up everything to get him. My opinion of course.
- stveshdy


I'll agree with that. They aren't willing to give up eevrything Nashville demanded before the OS but they are willing to give up some players and not simply the 4 draft picks. The offer sheet provides a way to get to the end as someone posted earlier
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 23 @ 11:24 AM ET
The problem isn't whether Nashville can match or not. They can match. The key is can Nashville ice a competitive team if they do match?

If it comes down to a matter of pride, they may well match out of spite. If Holmgren offers an olive branch that helps them stay competitive, helps them get to the cap floor without having to bleed money to do it as well as save a little face in a PR aspect, it might make it easier for them to decline matching, and the Flyers get their guy.

The object of the excercise is to get Shea Weber in a Flyers jersey.

- Jsaquella


I would trust you to be in the GM seat around noon on Wednesday when the final round of talks begin.
Jimmygrazz
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: South Jersey, NJ
Joined: 04.23.2010

Jul 23 @ 11:25 AM ET
And of course Nashville is going to wait until the last minute to make a decision. Why would they do the Flyers any favors by doing it sooner with them knowing Homer was talking to Doan.
NickTheKid87
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 11.19.2010

Jul 23 @ 11:26 AM ET
Obviously the owners of the Predators organization are successful businesspeople to be where they are, which is why I can't see them making an unsound financial decision. It seems that they may have just been saying they are willing to spend a ton of money to win a Cup but it looks like they may not be at all.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jul 23 @ 11:26 AM ET
The Flyers took that first step in the offer sheet and with the amount of money they are going to pay. The next step is to decide how much your willing to give to get Weber from Nashville. Are they willing to lose out on Weber being this close to acquiring him?
- stveshdy


That's what it really boils down to.
FlyerMike18
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 03.07.2009

Jul 23 @ 11:27 AM ET
I simultaneously feel that the Preds would scoff at that trade proposal and that the Flyers would ultimately regret trading Voracek when he blossoms into an NHL star.

Likewise, if Poile's position is so weak that he would be forced to settle for such a package of "lesser" players, then its probably weak enough where Homer could just offer him absolutely nothing and still end up with Shea Weber.

Preds' ownership is either prepared to match or they're not. If they are willing to bit the bullet, then there is virtually nothing that Homer can do, short of tabling a swath of untouchable assets, to change the outcome. If they've decided they can't match, Poile will posture, delay and feint in an attempt to erode the Flyers' position -- in any case, Homer would be best served by staying patient and letting events come to him.

- Tomahawk


very well put
stveshdy
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.28.2010

Jul 23 @ 11:27 AM ET
I'll agree with that. They aren't willing to give up eevrything Nashville demanded before the OS but they are willing to give up some players and not simply the 4 draft picks. The offer sheet provides a way to get to the end as someone posted earlier
- sulshawn


Thats very possible. Like I have said before the Flyers will trade players on their terms.
sulshawn
Joined: 07.28.2008

Jul 23 @ 11:27 AM ET
Why doesnt Nashville take the picks and then trade them ... I am sure they can get Jbow For 2 1st rounders + or throw all 4 and get Iggy also
- BaldRich


If I'm Nashville and can get a top 6 forward and top 4 defenseman plus the 2 picks, they can trade the draft picks and get a J-Bo.

They can still be a very good team. I really like Weber but Nashville has to think that they never did get past the 2nd round with the Suter/Weber duo.
eayost
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Into the Void, PA
Joined: 04.14.2010

Jul 23 @ 11:28 AM ET
And of course Nashville is going to wait until the last minute to make a decision. Why would they do the Flyers any favors by doing it sooner with them knowing Homer was talking to Doan.
- Jimmygrazz


Doan isn't doing anything until this is resolved if he liked what the Flyers were selling at all. He's gonna wait to see if they get Shea Weber, then talk to the Flyers again. Things are frozen around the league right now because of this. Holmgren isn't missing out on anything by Nashville waiting around. They're waiting around to get a better deal from Holmgren
NickTheKid87
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 11.19.2010

Jul 23 @ 11:28 AM ET
And of course Nashville is going to wait until the last minute to make a decision. Why would they do the Flyers any favors by doing it sooner with them knowing Homer was talking to Doan.
- Jimmygrazz


I don't even think it's just that. This decision is HUGE no matter how you slice and dice it. Worst case for Nashville is that they could cripple their franchise financially/personnel wise or in the eyes of the fans. No one should ever rush in to a decision with potentially fatal consequences. I would take the full 7 days if I was in their position. Gotta minimize regret.
vejim
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: FL
Joined: 07.08.2007

Jul 23 @ 11:28 AM ET
the Preds have a history of drafting good D men and are in desperate need for a top center. I am confident that a center has to be returned in this deal. I know you guys dont want to hear this but I think its the Schenn Bros. I wish Nashville would take 4 firsts but with the flyers future those picks could be high seconds
BaldRich
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Kutztown, PA
Joined: 12.16.2011

Jul 23 @ 11:28 AM ET
And of course Nashville is going to wait until the last minute to make a decision. Why would they do the Flyers any favors by doing it sooner with them knowing Homer was talking to Doan.
- Jimmygrazz


If they want to Help Nashville reach the cap floor Give them Jake, Gus,MAB. And tell them they will also take Walker,Shelly and Lilja
FlyerAdam30
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Sewell, NJ
Joined: 04.15.2012

Jul 23 @ 11:29 AM ET
I think the fans holding out hope of Nashville matching based solely on that minority owner Wilson being rich are going to be dissapointed. Firstly, you don't become a billionaire by making bad financial investments. It's unlikely he's going to help pay for Weber, because he really wants to keep him, or he's a big fan. If he's going to invest more money he's going to want a bigger piece of the team. Not saying thats impossible, but generally not the decisions easily made in 7 days. The Philadelphia Phillies have a minority owner who is a billionaire too, John Middleton. And obviously they have spent money over the last few years, but he also was the part owner when they spent peanuts on their payroll. Just saying, if the Preds match, I doubt its because of this guy.
stveshdy
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.28.2010

Jul 23 @ 11:29 AM ET
That's what it really boils down to.
- Jsaquella


No question. There is no way WE can answer that and therefore we can only speculate and create ideas that we think would work.
RooNosHockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bear, DE
Joined: 10.25.2011

Jul 23 @ 11:29 AM ET
Thats the thing.

If they can match. Why not keep him?

If Homer isnt willing to give up Schenn and Cooties together, then Nashville could just wait a year for every other team to get into the bidding. They would get a better package with everyone driving up the price.

- flyer_nutter


Because if they match it will be to keep him. If they want to trade him, they need to work with the Flyers. Nashville can not affored to pay Weber 27 million for 1 year of service. That would be a lose-lose for Nashville.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jul 23 @ 11:29 AM ET
Thats the question to me.

If they can, then what has really changed? If the Predators can financially retain Weber why would they be willing to accept a lesser package, of the Schenn and Cooties one that was reported.

If they simply cannot match and pay him 26 million for the following season, then Holmgren has no need to play nice and give up anything more than four first rounders imo.

The thing in all of this though, is that Weber apparently wants out. Does that influence Nashville in any way?

- flyer_nutter


Being able to match is one thing. All that takes is being able to write a $13mm check, which the owners of Nashville certainly can do.

However, there's a ripple effect on them for that payment. That amount of money committed to one guy will draw away from other areas of the team and organization.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's the best course of action to pursue.

It really boils down to this, can the Flyers be content to not get Weber after the whole offer sheet process and being close enough to taste it?
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jul 23 @ 11:30 AM ET
I would trust you to be in the GM seat around noon on Wednesday when the final round of talks begin.
- spatso


I want to be a simple scout. Travelling around watching games...heaven
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