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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: "Gratton Trade" for Weber Makes Financial & Hockey Sense
Author Message
Hextall271
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hart-Land, NB
Joined: 01.18.2007

Jul 23 @ 10:38 AM ET
I expect you've read this already but interesting article. I think Campbell is MF ing insane to think we'd allow the Preds to take our 4 1sts, Cooter, Coburn Grossmann, Laughton and Gustaffson for not matching Weber and a 3rd.. I mean WTF??

Also, the article says that Poile has indicated that there is no way the Preds can match front loaded contracts..


http://www.thehockeynews....s-do-with-Shea-Weber.html
stveshdy
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.28.2010

Jul 23 @ 10:39 AM ET
A lot depends on how bad the Flyers want Weber. The Flyers will be willing to trade for Weber so the Preds don't match but on their terms. I don't see Homer offering a high package to get Weber at this point b/c if thats the case he would of done it already.
C-Vac
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.29.2007

Jul 23 @ 10:40 AM ET
Timonen is likely to retire next summer. And Weber more than replaces what Coburn and Meszaos bring to the table. There's no way in Hell that Meszaros or Coburn should be a trade killer for Shea Weber....and I really like both Coburn and Meszaros.
- Jsaquella


First off, I doubt Timonen retires next summer. He is still a very important part of the mix. Plus he can still play and it would be a big blow if they lose him. I say he returns but not at 6.3 mil. I'm not arguing that Weber would not replace what you lose in Mez or Coburn. What I'm saying is I'd much rather have all of them so your Top 6 is the best in the NHL.

Current Top 6
Timonen
Coburn
Mez
Grossmann
Schenn
MAB/Gus/Gervais or Lilja

Potential Top 6 w/o Mez or Coburn
Weber
Timonen
Coburn or Mez
Grossmann
Schenn
MAB or Gus/Gervais/Lilja

Ideal Top 6
Weber
Timonen
Mez
Coburn
Grossmann
Schenn

I like the ideal scenario a lot more than the other two.
Hextall271
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hart-Land, NB
Joined: 01.18.2007

Jul 23 @ 10:42 AM ET
First off, I doubt Timonen retires next summer. He is still a very important part of the mix. Plus he can still play and it would be a big blow if they lose him. I say he returns but not at 6.3 mil. I'm not arguing that Weber would not replace what you lose in Mez or Coburn. What I'm saying is I'd much rather have all of them so your Top 6 is the best in the NHL.

Current Top 6
Timonen
Coburn
Mez
Grossmann
Schenn
MAB/Gus/Gervais or Lilja

Potential Top 6 w/o Mez or Coburn
Weber
Timonen
Coburn or Mez
Grossmann
Schenn
MAB or Gus/Gervais/Lilja

Ideal Top 6
Weber
Timonen
Mez
Coburn
Grossmann
Schenn

I like the ideal scenario a lot more than the other two.

- C-Vac


The last group would be fantastic, but I doubt it comes to pass as I think there will be a trade.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 23 @ 10:42 AM ET
kinda feel the same way. they could just be screwing with holmer, but they'd be doing the same to their captain, as well. maybe just stalling to try and eek out best return in a gratton scenario.
- OrangeBlack27


On the day the offer was made everyone was fitting Weber in orange and black. By Saturday, everyone was saying their bluffing, make them match. Sunday, people were saying we can do a deal as long as it does not involve Schenn or Couturier. Now I see some of you debating which one of the two you would give up to get Weber. And, you wonder why Poile has decided to ice the talks. He knows the longer it goes the easier it is for Holmgren to put his best offer on the table.
LordStanley88
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.30.2012

Jul 23 @ 10:43 AM ET
On the day the offer was made everyone was fitting Weber in orange and black. By Saturday, everyone was saying their bluffing, make them match. Sunday, people were saying we can do a deal as long as it does not involve Schenn or Couturier. Now I see some of you debating which one of the two you would give up to get Weber. And, you wonder why Poile has decided to ice the talks. He knows the longer it goes the easier it is for Holmgren to put his best offer on the table.
- spatso


Obviously if they do a deal it won't be done until the 11th hour. That is a given.
Hextall271
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hart-Land, NB
Joined: 01.18.2007

Jul 23 @ 10:44 AM ET
On the day the offer was made everyone was fitting Weber in orange and black. By Saturday, everyone was saying their bluffing, make them match. Sunday, people were saying we can do a deal as long as it does not involve Schenn or Couturier. Now I see some of you debating which one of the two you would give up to get Weber. And, you wonder why Poile has decided to ice the talks. He knows the longer it goes the easier it is for Holmgren to put his best offer on the table.
- spatso


It comes down to how much we need Weber. We do. If Poile says I want Cooter or Giroux..I say match. Anyone else should be on the table.
NickTheKid87
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 11.19.2010

Jul 23 @ 10:44 AM ET
On the day the offer was made everyone was fitting Weber in orange and black. By Saturday, everyone was saying their bluffing, make them match. Sunday, people were saying we can do a deal as long as it does not involve Schenn or Couturier. Now I see some of you debating which one of the two you would give up to get Weber. And, you wonder why Poile has decided to ice the talks. He knows the longer it goes the easier it is for Holmgren to put his best offer on the table.
- spatso


To assume that the way we are acting is anyway indicative of how Holmgren is thinking is utter folly. I think this delay has more to do with Nashville's financial predicament and/or protocol than Poile trying to get Holmgren to become desperate.
Philly1980
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.30.2011

Jul 23 @ 10:45 AM ET
On the day the offer was made everyone was fitting Weber in orange and black. By Saturday, everyone was saying their bluffing, make them match. Sunday, people were saying we can do a deal as long as it does not involve Schenn or Couturier. Now I see some of you debating which one of the two you would give up to get Weber. And, you wonder why Poile has decided to ice the talks. He knows the longer it goes the easier it is for Holmgren to put his best offer on the table.
- spatso


Thank god homer is not like the rest of us.
landros 2
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

Jul 23 @ 10:45 AM ET
To Nash: Couturier, Meszaros, 1st

To Philly: Not matching the OS, 3 1sts


Am I crazy to think this is reasonable for a franchise D-man signed to a relatively friendly cap hit in his prime years? And you get to obviously keep Voracek this way.

I'm just trying to be somewhat realistic. I don't think Voracek and Meszaros get it done, and I'm not so sure stepping up the offer isn't worth what's coming back.

- eayost



Unlike most.....I agree with you. I think the Flyers will have to part with one of the two young centers to get Weber....
I hope the deal you mentioned above would get it done....but it may take the addition of Read or Vorecek....
I am not saying its a great hockey trade .....But the Ante is high.
RooNosHockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bear, DE
Joined: 10.25.2011

Jul 23 @ 10:47 AM ET
On the day the offer was made everyone was fitting Weber in orange and black. By Saturday, everyone was saying their bluffing, make them match. Sunday, people were saying we can do a deal as long as it does not involve Schenn or Couturier. Now I see some of you debating which one of the two you would give up to get Weber. And, you wonder why Poile has decided to ice the talks. He knows the longer it goes the easier it is for Holmgren to put his best offer on the table.
- spatso


While I am discussion whom I would rather trade, If it was me I would not trade either Schenns or Couturier. I can give up Voracek, and Meszaros. I would be willing to upgrade to Voracek and Coburn. I would be willing to add another forward, and draft pick with V and M. I would be willing to word with a form of that deal as long as the schenns and Couts are not part of it.
OrangeBlack27
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: i do, mike, PA
Joined: 06.29.2006

Jul 23 @ 10:47 AM ET
Thank god homer is not like the rest of us.
- Philly1980


ya
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

Jul 23 @ 10:47 AM ET
On the day the offer was made everyone was fitting Weber in orange and black. By Saturday, everyone was saying their bluffing, make them match. Sunday, people were saying we can do a deal as long as it does not involve Schenn or Couturier. Now I see some of you debating which one of the two you would give up to get Weber. And, you wonder why Poile has decided to ice the talks. He knows the longer it goes the easier it is for Holmgren to put his best offer on the table.
- spatso

actually if you go back to the night it happened probably about 200 am thursday morning, I said on this thread a side deal might be in the works.
FlyersGrace
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Pronger "Play the game puffnuts!" , DE
Joined: 07.02.2012

Jul 23 @ 10:47 AM ET
Imo - I think that the offer Nash will ultimately take is both Schenns and 2 1st’s. And the reasoning behind this is that the whole “brothers” drama will be sellable to a fan base. As Flyers fans it seems like way too much. But take the offer sheet out of the equation. Right before the playoffs would you have made this trade? Probably… It gives Nashville 2 really good stars with the potential for 1 – 2 more (I would combine those firsts to try and get higher in the draft). Philly fans will grumble right up until they see Weber hit Crosby for the first time and then they won’t even remember the Schenn brothers. But both Schenns will have a fresh start and plenty of ice time in Nashville to truly flourish.

If Nashville matches I’ll be a bit disappointed (but only because I love defensemen). I’ll also be excited to watch some of our younger guys kick some grass… Their good season only makes us that much stronger next year.

Great read Bill! I always come back to you when I want to know what's going on. No one else can touch your style, pasion, and wisdom. Thank you for writing for us!
stveshdy
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.28.2010

Jul 23 @ 10:48 AM ET
To assume that the way we are acting is anyway indicative of how Holmgren is thinking is utter folly. I think this delay has more to do with Nashville's financial predicament and/or protocol than Poile trying to get Holmgren to become desperate.
- NickTheKid87


No question. Homer has much more information then we do.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 23 @ 10:48 AM ET
I beleive it is you that is in error. Simply go to the CBA and look at Exhibit 6.

An Offer Sheet is not an SPC. And putting a movement clause in Weber's contract is not a side deal, nor is it a renogotiation. Right now there is an Offer Sheet, and that's it. There is not an SPC between Weber and either team.

- MJL



Your last sentence is 100% correct. There cannot be any inducements or considerations other than what is provided for in the offer sheet.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jul 23 @ 10:48 AM ET
First off, I doubt Timonen retires next summer. He is still a very important part of the mix. Plus he can still play and it would be a big blow if they lose him. I say he returns but not at 6.3 mil. I'm not arguing that Weber would not replace what you lose in Mez or Coburn. What I'm saying is I'd much rather have all of them so your Top 6 is the best in the NHL.

Current Top 6
Timonen
Coburn
Mez
Grossmann
Schenn
MAB/Gus/Gervais or Lilja

Potential Top 6 w/o Mez or Coburn
Weber
Timonen
Coburn or Mez
Grossmann
Schenn
MAB or Gus/Gervais/Lilja

Ideal Top 6
Weber
Timonen
Mez
Coburn
Grossmann
Schenn

I like the ideal scenario a lot more than the other two.

- C-Vac


Timonen has stated that he will retire at the end of his current deal, because he intends on finishing his hockey playing career on the team he owns with Sami Kapanen in Finland.

I like the ideal one better, too. Everyone with a brain would. However, ideal might not be possible.
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

Jul 23 @ 10:49 AM ET
Well stated article, Bill. Your take on the situation would have me thinking you're in the meetings feeding info to some of these insiderrs #confirmed
Philly1980
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.30.2011

Jul 23 @ 10:49 AM ET
Damn it i got this ipad app i gotta build! FU homer FU nashville for putting me behind on my job .... All ive been doing is hitting the refresh button on here lol. Please let this be over!
MBFlyerfan
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Jul 23 @ 10:50 AM ET
Imo - I think that the offer Nash will ultimately take is both Schenns and 2 1st’s. And the reasoning behind this is that the whole “brothers” drama will be sellable to a fan base. As Flyers fans it seems like way too much. But take the offer sheet out of the equation. Right before the playoffs would you have made this trade? Probably… It gives Nashville 2 really good stars with the potential for 1 – 2 more (I would combine those firsts to try and get higher in the draft). Philly fans will grumble right up until they see Weber hit Crosby for the first time and then they won’t even remember the Schenn brothers. But both Schenns will have a fresh start and plenty of ice time in Nashville to truly flourish.

If Nashville matches I’ll be a bit disappointed (but only because I love defensemen). I’ll also be excited to watch some of our younger guys kick some grass… Their good season only makes us that much stronger next year.

Great read Bill! I always come back to you when I want to know what's going on. No one else can touch your style, pasion, and wisdom. Thank you for writing for us!

- FlyersGrace



Maybe I am in the minority, but I would do Schennx2 plus 2 firsts for Weber.
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

Jul 23 @ 10:50 AM ET
Damn it i got this ipad app i gotta build! FU homer FU nashville for putting me behind on my job .... All ive been doing is hitting the refresh button on here lol. Please let this be over!
- Philly1980

I skipped major yardwork and I have a kid's birthday party with guests coming over tonight
Philly1980
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.30.2011

Jul 23 @ 10:50 AM ET
Timonen has stated that he will retire at the end of his current deal, because he intends on finishing his hockey playing career on the team he owns with Sami Kapanen in Finland.

I like the ideal one better, too. Everyone with a brain would. However, ideal might not be possible.

- Jsaquella


I really think he gives it one more year for s shot at the cup.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 23 @ 10:51 AM ET
It comes down to how much we need Weber. We do. If Poile says I want Cooter or Giroux..I say match. Anyone else should be on the table.
- Hextall271


I think you are the closest to what is actually being plotted out behind the scenes. I think Schenn/Schenn and a #1.
Philly1980
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.30.2011

Jul 23 @ 10:51 AM ET
I skipped major yardwork and I have a kid's birthday party with guests coming over tonight
- JoeRussomanno


I hate it! Better put the earphones on so you dont here your wife yelling at you!
flyer_nutter
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Unleash the Peanuts, MB
Joined: 10.16.2008

Jul 23 @ 10:51 AM ET
Off topic, big time. Also a little raunchy but since nobody here really knows me here it goes. MUST READ.

Have you ever had really bad food poisoning? Well this morning I got sent out to do a few lawns (work for Weedman), in a town roughly 40 minutes away. On the way my stomach started to get crazy pains, and I felt like throwing up but thought I would just get through it.

Within 5 minutes of town I knew there was danger. I sped toward the nearest gas station and ran inside, looking for the nearest bathroom. I spent 30 minutes in there, and waged a battle of epic proportions. Threw up once as well.

I figured it was all over, and while I felt weak decided to get started with my day. 5 minutes into the first customers house it happened again. However this time I had no muscle control and no time to even get to the truck. It just hit me. So in my haste, while trying to remove my belt there was mass leakage into my work pants, and furthermore on to the customers lawn.

The guy just happened to come home at that time, however I do not think he noticed or knew what had happened. I quickly told him I felt too sick, and was unable to do his lawn today.

A 40 minute drive back to Winnipeg sitting in my shame and fecal matter.

Happy Monday.
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