Wanna blog? Start your own hockey blog with My HockeyBuzz. Register for free today!
 
Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: The Case For Trading Jonathan Toews
Author Message
SteveRain
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Connor Murphy Sucks, IL
Joined: 05.07.2010

Jun 11 @ 2:10 PM ET
Eh, Toews really isn't that bad. Aside from AA he was really the only NHL center on the roster and that is just ridiculous.

When they were really good in 2010 you had Madden, Bolland, Toews and then Sharp eventually on the second line.

The second set of runs had Kruger, Bolland, Zeus and Toews.

Then Kruger, Vermette, Rad Brichards and Toews.

The last two years they have really asked him to do too much. Maybe Schmaltz becomes a good NHL center but I wouldn't bet a Cup on it. And AA running the third line is problematic since he can't tilt the ice like Bolland or Vermette. He's fine if he just has to create space, win pucks on the boards and bang in garbage goals but otherwise maybe not the best fit.

At a minimum they need a center who can eat the garbage draws, kill penalties and knock in 35ish points.

Losing AA's money and signing Tavares puts them in a better spot having two top centers. Takes a lot of pressure off and gets them a lot of goals. Even keeping AA and having someone like Statsny or even Filppula to skate 15 minutes a night and flip the ice would be a tremendous help.

Either way, the Hawks need 1 if not 2 veteran centers added to the line up or else you'll see a worn out and frustrated Toews, not dissimilar to how Keith behaves when he has to play with the Oesterles of the league.

- fattybeef


I agree with this and posted a blog back that dealing Murphy to me gives you room to sign Tavares, IF (huge IF) Islanders let him go, and you go 91-19-15 down the middle. That's a solid start.


I also agree with Justin that it's time to give PK a letter. Look, the Canadian clique that has dominated that room for years has to end. I would strip Keith of the letter and let Kane get involved.


With the wirtz quotes coming out I would expect a decent sized move coming by the 4th of july. Either a trade before/during/after the draft AND a signing on the 1st.



SteveRain
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Connor Murphy Sucks, IL
Joined: 05.07.2010

Jun 11 @ 2:15 PM ET
Some interesting stats on Toews and AA, must admit was a little surprised at the AA stats:


Toews 2015/16 shot percentage 15.6 ranked 14th

Toews 2016/16 shot percentage 10.5 ranked 79th

Toews 2017/18 shot percentage 9.5% ranked 114th

AA

2015/16 shot percentage 16.5 ranked 6th

2016/17 shot percentage 20.9 ranked 1st

2017/18 shot percentage 15.4 ranked 20th

- walleyeb1



AA got blasted by foley during that Nashville series after coming back from a sprained ankle. The hatred of Russians by Foley has been aggravating. I grew up with Foley, was glad he came back, but I wish they would move on from him. I feel like I get dumb watching Hawks telecasts because Foley wants to play grab @ss and Eddie O stoops down to that level.


Where as when Eddie O is doing national games you get the ex coach Eddie O and that is the Eddie O the Hawks telecast needs. Instead it's a big love fest with cookies and shout outs. Horrible.


-Doh-
Location: VA
Joined: 10.05.2015

Jun 11 @ 2:15 PM ET
If Q plays Saad-Toews-Kane as a line the entire season, Toews can get 70 points. The issue is that what appears to be clear about Toews offensive production is that it relies HEAVILY on having one of the best RWs in the World on his line (Hossa or Kane). The points started coming about about a PPG once Kaner (the only true superstar left on the team) started feeding Toews and Saad. For $10.5mil with a $6mil winger on his line in Saad, you'd hope that Toews could consistently produce near a PPG avg without having to put Kane on his line.
- EnzoD


Two extremes.
1) Toews plays with Saad and Kane for the full year. Obviously Kane is one of the best RW in the game. Toews numbers would reflect who he is playing with.
2) Toews plays with Saad and the flavor of the month, usually a middle six or bottom six skill level player and Q keeps rotating players on and off his line game to game. Toews numbers would reflect who he is playing with.

Hopefully the Hawks can get a decent 1RW to play with Toews and Saad all year. Definitely the RW would not be as good as Kane, but much better than Panik, Duclair, Hayden or the like. The line would have a good plus/minus and Toews and Saad could kill penalties.

The 2nd line of Kane, Debrincat and AA (barring any trade) makes up a very good 2nd line (although 5v5 they are probably break even at best). They would also be a big factor on the PP.
BigDog912
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Buffalo, NY
Joined: 10.04.2017

Jun 11 @ 2:15 PM ET
I look forward to you coming back here when Ryan O'Reilly is traded for a late first and B-prospect

- EnzoD


Then toews might get u a bag of pucks. Actually that would be a great deal for Chi.
Panarin27
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 05.25.2015

Jun 11 @ 2:16 PM ET
I agree with this and posted a blog back that dealing Murphy to me gives you room to sign Tavares, IF (huge IF) Islanders let him go, and you go 91-19-15 down the middle. That's a solid start.


I also agree with Justin that it's time to give PK a letter. Look, the Canadian clique that has dominated that room for years has to end. I would strip Keith of the letter and let Kane get involved.


With the wirtz quotes coming out I would expect a decent sized move coming by the 4th of july. Either a trade before/during/after the draft AND a signing on the 1st.

- SteveRain


I agree with everything here except trading murph. We don't need to trade him to have 91-19-15 down the middle.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Jun 11 @ 2:16 PM ET
Then toews might get u a bag of pucks. Actually that would be a great deal for Chi.
- BigDog912


A bag of pucks AND $10.5mil in cap space (aka John Tavares)
SteveRain
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Connor Murphy Sucks, IL
Joined: 05.07.2010

Jun 11 @ 2:18 PM ET
I agree with everything here except trading murph. We don't need to trade him to have 91-19-15 down the middle.
- Panarin27


Murphy is a cow pie. THey need to move on.
SteveRain
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Connor Murphy Sucks, IL
Joined: 05.07.2010

Jun 11 @ 2:19 PM ET
Then toews might get u a bag of pucks. Actually that would be a great deal for Chi.
- BigDog912


Hold on......are you saying the Hawks couldn't trade Toews IF they wanted to?

Are you also saying Ryan O'Reilly is just as good?

Atomic Wedgie
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: The centre of the hockey universe
Joined: 07.31.2006

Jun 11 @ 2:20 PM ET
I always think of the first time I met Toews and he asked me the same question, "What made you become a Blackhawks fan"... I didn't have an amazing answer for him then, and don't have one now.

I loved the logo and I was 7 years old. I am an extremely loyal person, so from there, I stuck with them and have been a fan ever since - through the good times and bad (very bad!).

- Justin Lowe

Ha! I was just the opposite.

When I was in kindergarten, me and my homies would draw all of the NHL logos (when we weren't drawing pictures of goalies - something I still doodle during boring meetings).

The Blackhawks' logo was impossible to draw (same as the KC Scouts) so I never liked them.

To this day, I don't like the Blackhawks' uniform - even though 99% of hockey fans say it's one of the nicest. I fully concede that I should like it - I can definitely see how others like it - but what can I tell you? I still bear a grudge from kindergarten.

I swear, I'm not kidding.
bikeguy99
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 09.05.2017

Jun 11 @ 2:20 PM ET
Toews is still a great 1C in the league. But at 10.5M, not sure he is too attractive. Maybe if 2M was retained, he could fetch something in return. But with the Cap going up by another 5M, I'd assume Anisimove ( 3yr 4.55M AAV), and Murphy (4 yr 3.85M AAV) would be far easier contracts to shed while freeing up alot of space. 5M cap raise+ Murphy and Anisimov 8.3M + current cap space of 6.25 + Hossa Retiring 5.25M leaves Chicago with 24.8M cap space...... So, with just 3 RFA's to resign, I think there is plenty of money to play around with
BigDog912
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Buffalo, NY
Joined: 10.04.2017

Jun 11 @ 2:22 PM ET
Hold on......are you saying the Hawks couldn't trade Toews IF they wanted to?

Are you also saying Ryan O'Reilly is just as good?

- SteveRain


Yeah did you forget he is 3 years younger and 3 million dollars less of a cap hit. Huge difference.
Tyler Cameron
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 10.31.2017

Jun 11 @ 2:22 PM ET
Ha! I was just the opposite.

When I was in kindergarten, me and my homies would draw all of the NHL logos (when we weren't drawing pictures of goalies - something I still doodle during boring meetings).

The Blackhawks' logo was impossible to draw (same as the KC Scouts) so I never liked them.

To this day, I don't like the Blackhawks' uniform - even though 99% of hockey fans say it's one of the nicest. I fully concede that I should like it - I can definitely see how others like it - but what can I tell you? I still bear a grudge from kindergarten.

I swear, I'm not kidding.

- Atomic Wedgie


Haha. Nice.

Meanwhile I was (horribly) drawing the Hawks logo on a weekly basis. I agree... not easy to draw.


SteveRain
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Connor Murphy Sucks, IL
Joined: 05.07.2010

Jun 11 @ 2:23 PM ET
Yeah did you forget he is 3 years younger and 3 million dollars less of a cap hit. Huge difference.
- BigDog912


You and vopats need to hang out......this is all time trolling.

IF you polled every GM in the league, not 1 would take Ryan O'Reilly over Toews, including the dumpster fire that is known as the Buffalo Sabres.

I needed a solid laugh. Thanks.
Atomic Wedgie
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: The centre of the hockey universe
Joined: 07.31.2006

Jun 11 @ 2:31 PM ET
Haha. Nice.

Meanwhile I was (horribly) drawing the Hawks logo on a weekly basis. I agree... not easy to draw.

- Justin Lowe

Share this link with your son and/or daughter.

https://www.drawingtutori...w-chicago-blackhawks-logo

There's no need for them to suffer needlessly like we did.

"Why, when I was growing up..."
wonthecup10
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 02.05.2008

Jun 11 @ 2:34 PM ET
Does Brady Tkachuk fall to the Hawks at 8 with Wahlstrom, Kotkaniemi and Bouchard/Dobson trending up? I'd wager that AT WORST you have Tom Wilson-esque type player and at BEST you have......Keith Keith Tkachuk2.0
- EnzoD


Enzo, That definitely would make my summer! I would like to see them trade up a few slots to do with they came to get that kid. I’ve been on that bandwagon since day one
BlazinMike
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 05.08.2013

Jun 11 @ 2:36 PM ET
Hawks fans the past 3 years: toews sucks now and i basically hate him

Hawks fans as soon as another fan base says something bad about Toews: You're stupid and don't understand how great he is.

L_B_R
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.23.2014

Jun 11 @ 2:38 PM ET
Two extremes.
1) Toews plays with Saad and Kane for the full year. Obviously Kane is one of the best RW in the game. Toews numbers would reflect who he is playing with.
2) Toews plays with Saad and the flavor of the month, usually a middle six or bottom six skill level player and Q keeps rotating players on and off his line game to game. Toews numbers would reflect who he is playing with.

Hopefully the Hawks can get a decent 1RW to play with Toews and Saad all year. Definitely the RW would not be as good as Kane, but much better than Panik, Duclair, Hayden or the like. The line would have a good plus/minus and Toews and Saad could kill penalties.

The 2nd line of Kane, Debrincat and AA (barring any trade) makes up a very good 2nd line (although 5v5 they are probably break even at best). They would also be a big factor on the PP.

- -Doh-

I know a lot of people would like some more size for the Hawks, which I do not mind esp on a checking line, but I'd like to be able to find a playmaker that could work with Saad-Toews. Panik on that line was just too much of the same and he really is mostly a shooter. Hinostroza worked there for a short while because he actually is a pretty good passer, but I don't think he's capable of maintaining it on a top line facing top comp for that long (as shown by his dip as the season went on).

Could Sikura be that player? I don't know enough about his skill set. I wish Edjsell was a (much) better skater because he's got some good hands on him. Schmaltz is the best ~established option beyond Kane, but I would like to see him get more time at center to determine if he really can do it long term.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Jun 11 @ 2:39 PM ET
Toews is still a great 1C in the league. But at 10.5M, not sure he is too attractive. Maybe if 2M was retained, he could fetch something in return. But with the Cap going up by another 5M, I'd assume Anisimove ( 3yr 4.55M AAV), and Murphy (4 yr 3.85M AAV) would be far easier contracts to shed while freeing up alot of space. 5M cap raise+ Murphy and Anisimov 8.3M + current cap space of 6.25 + Hossa Retiring 5.25M leaves Chicago with 24.8M cap space...... So, with just 3 RFA's to resign, I think there is plenty of money to play around with
- bikeguy99


Agreed, but to truly use the Hossa $5.5mil cap space they need to trade the contract. The $5.5 mil only gets buried on LTIR after the season starts so they can't use it in Free Agency. I expect Murphy + Anisimov + Hossa + #27 overall are the most likely trade chips.
L_B_R
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.23.2014

Jun 11 @ 2:39 PM ET
@CapFriendly
There's been much talk of possible movement within the top 10 at this years draft.

However, since 2005 only eight trades involving a top 10 pick have actually occurred in the month of June, preceding the draft or on the draft floor.

* The 8th overall has seen the most action.


BigDog912
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Buffalo, NY
Joined: 10.04.2017

Jun 11 @ 2:40 PM ET
You and vopats need to hang out......this is all time trolling.

IF you polled every GM in the league, not 1 would take Ryan O'Reilly over Toews, including the dumpster fire that is known as the Buffalo Sabres.

I needed a solid laugh. Thanks.

- SteveRain


I hate to break the news to you but you couldnt give Toews away. While rumors for ROR are pretty big. He has serious value. The reason again is they very similar players but one is in his prime and three years younger while the other is in his decline and cost 3 million dollars more. So I would like to see that poll because i cant imagine any GM trading Toews for O'Reilly Straight up.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Jun 11 @ 2:40 PM ET
Enzo, That definitely would make my summer! I would like to see them trade up a few slots to do with they came to get that kid. I’ve been on that bandwagon since day one
- wonthecup10


I would part with Sikura or Edjsell in a second to move up to # 4/5
BigDog912
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Buffalo, NY
Joined: 10.04.2017

Jun 11 @ 2:41 PM ET
Hawks fans the past 3 years: toews sucks now and i basically hate him

Hawks fans as soon as another fan base says something bad about Toews: You're stupid and don't understand how great he is.

- BlazinMike


Haha so true.
walleyeb1
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Petersburg, IL
Joined: 09.25.2014

Jun 11 @ 2:42 PM ET
You and vopats need to hang out......this is all time trolling.

IF you polled every GM in the league, not 1 would take Ryan O'Reilly over Toews, including the dumpster fire that is known as the Buffalo Sabres.

I needed a solid laugh. Thanks.

- SteveRain


So you think if the Blackhawks offered Buffalo Toews for O’Reilly straight up they’d jump on it in a heartbeat?
BigDog912
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Buffalo, NY
Joined: 10.04.2017

Jun 11 @ 2:45 PM ET
So you think if the Blackhawks offered Buffalo Toews for O’Reilly straight up they’d jump on it in a heartbeat?
- walleyeb1


He is an idiot i am not sure why I waste my time with him.
L_B_R
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.23.2014

Jun 11 @ 2:50 PM ET
I would part with Sikura or Edjsell in a second to move up to # 4/5
- EnzoD

Edjsell definitely wouldn't get you in the top 5 and I don't think Sikura alone would either.

Look at the chart I posted above - for a #5 in 2008, it took #7 + two other picks (2nd and 3rd). Maybe they would take a #8 + Sikura + 3rd but that might be overvaluing Sikura a bit considering he hasn't proven anything yet.
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31  Next