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Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: Response to Seabrook Trade Proposal
Author Message
RoloTahmasee
Joined: 07.24.2009

May 27 @ 12:24 PM ET
If I were an owner, I'd fight for rights to restructure contracts (small number a year) and the ability to break cap to keep homegrown talent, say at a 10% over cap max or something. Players may never go for the first one, but if they know their option is being bought out or FA'ed, maybe they would.

ETA: This might help with the youth for cost's sake issue the Toronto person raised. Vegas is full of mostly vets and is beating the teams full of a few superstars surrounded by speedy youth. Something to be said for experience, still.

- pdx2ord


The last thing owners want is the ability to restructure contracts. The ability to restructure is a players best friend

That's how you get players making low $$ holding out wanting a pay raise after 1 good season. The owners removed that ability like 15 years ago in that CBA
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

May 27 @ 12:36 PM ET
Until we draft a D guy who is taller than 6’, weighs more than 180, and has a prayer of standing up a guy like Alex Tuch, this D group has no business trying to trade Seabrook. Might be the only guy on the Hawk blue line who can hit anyone.

Yeah, he’s a step slower, but he has been shackled with inept partners for years now playing teacher/safety valve.

FO needs to get him in the gym and get him a competent partne

And while they are at it, let’s try finding some guys like Alex Tuch instead of Alex DeBrincat.

- Return of the Roar


In an intentional non religious expression to your suggestion to introduce more size into the lineup, Amen and Amen.

There are some defense men prospects not needing a lot of AHL preparation to bring Glee to your outlook.

What you saw in Hillman is a good case scenario. He can be quite good on a bottom pair and in his particular case, there is some offensive tools that come with meanness and willingness to play aggressive physical hockey

The 8th choice or later first round choices depending upon trader Stan's tactics might bring more size but the players may also not be ready for prime time. I am curious if Ulf Samuelson persuades Stan to trade up and take his son - exactly the big huge willingly able to use that size physical battles. A defensive dman.

Oh the intrigue this draft brings. A spring board for Stan or not. He would do well to bring three too young talent and I am willing to trade even some prospects and players to get players with good upside whom we really need to introduce into our lineup.

A dark horse physical wing - who has made strides in development this season - is another Samuelson son. A former first round choice whose scouting report says he is string along the boards. He ought to have Z3 as a fan. Certainly Z3 would live to see twin physical bookends Samuelson and Martinsen join with Hayden to show us as a tougher team. Oh it is no secret Z3 not subtle message is then do not draft Tzachuk but a MORE skill player with our top choice
Hawkster
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Quebec , QC
Joined: 06.13.2008

May 27 @ 12:44 PM ET
At least this Seabrook trade talk is over. He is simply unmovable...unless you offer multiple picks/prospects for someone to take his deal, he is no longer a viable NHL player. I love this guy for what he did, but he can't do it anymore...the excuses that he played with this guy or that guy are ridiculous. His partner had ZERO to do with him getting easily walked wide time and time again, because he no longer can play at the speed of the NHL in 2018. It's over. He'll be a niche' third pairing guy making huge bucks for a long time. It's part of the reason the Hawks are now an afterthought in the NHL pecking order. Dumb management.
- kwolf68


Bang on!

Fulnny no comments from the peanut gallery when someone calls it like it is.

And you can add Toews to this list BTW.

Team will be a long way back to relevance if those two contacts are still on the books for another 4 years. That simple mathematics boys and girls.
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

May 27 @ 1:12 PM ET
Bang on!

Fulnny no comments from the peanut gallery when someone calls it like it is.

And you can add Toews to this list BTW.

Team will be a long way back to relevance if those two contacts are still on the books for another 4 years. That simple mathematics boys and girls.

- Hawkster


For every complaint and those whose heart end loyalty remain with Seabrook and Toews, there are likely the same or more who agree with your response on their future. Too bad we cannot trade Keith while he still has value. But there has to be one quality ABLE NHL dman and everyone else falls in behind him. Stan had drafted and signed the nicest crop of prospects we have had ever. You will see this is true and they should develop well in Rockford now that Stan is supporting the Icehog lineup with a few AHL veterans (including a center). I realize prospects don't help you win immediately. Just hope Stan does not let another GM pillage our lofty draft rights because he has to cover for inept previous management.[url]
z1990z
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: NW USA
Joined: 02.09.2012

May 27 @ 1:34 PM ET
Now we have the EK rumor of Toews and the NJ Devils. I mean where does he get this stuff?
pdx2ord
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Portland, OR
Joined: 09.02.2015

May 27 @ 1:34 PM ET
The last thing owners want is the ability to restructure contracts. The ability to restructure is a players best friend

That's how you get players making low $$ holding out wanting a pay raise after 1 good season. The owners removed that ability like 15 years ago in that CBA

- RoloTahmasee


I had it in my head a reduction in term or dollars, but I suppose it would have to work both ways for it to get anywhere in the negotiations. Ah well. . .
Z3Hawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.04.2017

May 27 @ 1:43 PM ET
Seabrook for Lucic

Washes hands, goes home

- RoloTahmasee


For Lucic? The Oilers’ Lucic who can no longer skate, take the body or score? No.
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Z3Hawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.04.2017

May 27 @ 1:49 PM ET
Stan over stepped in some recent deals. The Panik contract was awful and he was lucky to move it. Seabs? Yeah too much money for the amount of years in the extension. Can he move that contract? Maybe
- z1990z


Bowman clearly gave Seabs too much money per year and too many years. While this is good for Seabs bank account this overpayment means as a hockey player his play on the ice will never seem good enough.
z1990z
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: NW USA
Joined: 02.09.2012

May 27 @ 1:53 PM ET
Bowman clearly gave Seabs too much money per year and too many years. While this is good for Seabs bank account this overpayment means as a hockey player his play on the ice will never seem good enough.
- Z3Hawk



The NHL needs to re-do how it handles contracts. Like the NFL, a team should have the ability to waive a player and take on a contract percentage of dead space. Players can negotiate a money owed clause if a team chooses to waive them later. Why not? That player still gets paid and can go sign on with another team. It would reign these teams in who way over pay on contracts when they have to waive a guy later and pay out a chunk of money.
Z3Hawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.04.2017

May 27 @ 2:02 PM ET
Until we draft a D guy who is taller than 6’, weighs more than 180, and has a prayer of standing up a guy like Alex Tuch, this D group has no business trying to trade Seabrook. Might be the only guy on the Hawk blue line who can hit anyone.

Yeah, he’s a step slower, but he has been shackled with inept partners for years now playing teacher/safety valve.

FO needs to get him in the gym and get him a competent partner.

And while they are at it, let’s try finding some guys like Alex Tuch instead of Alex DeBrincat.

- Return of the Roar


When did Alex Tuch become a force? He was 22 when he played his first full season and he got 15 goals. People have got to put the Knights’ success in perspective. They have an excellent coach. However, the number 1 reason that they are in the Final is Fleury has been unbelievable. The superiority of Fleury over the opposing goalie has been the key in each series. Fleury has not shown cracks which has been his MO in the play-offs previously. We have seen this movie before. Last year Rinne played lights out getting the Preds to the Final. Cracks showed with Rinne in the Final (and this year too) and suddenly the powerful Preds were average.
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

May 27 @ 2:04 PM ET
Now we have the EK rumor of Toews and the NJ Devils. I mean where does he get this stuff?
- z1990z


EK just is a businessn trying to make money off his site - off his comments, because he knows sensationalism sells. Don't read him or believe him usually. No one should be dumb enough to trade for Toews.
Z3Hawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.04.2017

May 27 @ 2:30 PM ET
At least this Seabrook trade talk is over. He is simply unmovable...unless you offer multiple picks/prospects for someone to take his deal, he is no longer a viable NHL player. I love this guy for what he did, but he can't do it anymore...the excuses that he played with this guy or that guy are ridiculous. His partner had ZERO to do with him getting easily walked wide time and time again, because he no longer can play at the speed of the NHL in 2018. It's over. He'll be a niche' third pairing guy making huge bucks for a long time. It's part of the reason the Hawks are now an afterthought in the NHL
pecking order. Dumb management.

- kwolf68


Your comments could not be more wrong. It matters a great deal who a D-Man is asked to partner with. Proof - Seabrook has been asked to babysit for years now. Keith was always protected by Hammer. I asked for years what would happen if Keith had to babysit too? Well this year Keith was also asked to babysit and his head exploded and his game collapsed. MINUS 29. Seabrook was minus 3 after somehow being plus for most of the season. Seabrook was constantly asked to deal with odd-man breaks as his partners were caught wildly far up ice, out of position. Even if both D were in the D-Zone Seabs partner was constantly out of position, accomplishing absolutely nothing. Seabs had to worry about BOTH sides of the ice.

The fallacy is that every D-Men in the NHL must be a high end skater. This is not at all true. Proof - just look who plays D for the Knights and Caps. However those teams are far better coached playing D systems that actually make sense.

Now do not be mistaken. This does not mean I am comfortable with the contract given to Seabs by Bowman. I actually think this contract is absolutely insane with respect to both money and term. Although I have always been a fan of Seabs I would understand if he was shopped. Same for Toews.
z1990z
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: NW USA
Joined: 02.09.2012

May 27 @ 3:23 PM ET
Your comments could not be more wrong. It matters a great deal who a D-Man is asked to partner with. Proof - Seabrook has been asked to babysit for years now. Keith was always protected by Hammer. I asked for years what would happen if Keith had to babysit too? Well this year Keith was also asked to babysit and his head exploded and his game collapsed. MINUS 29. Seabrook was minus 3 after somehow being plus for most of the season. Seabrook was constantly asked to deal with odd-man breaks as his partners were caught wildly far up ice, out of position. Even if both D were in the D-Zone Seabs partner was constantly out of position, accomplishing absolutely nothing. Seabs had to worry about BOTH sides of the ice.

The fallacy is that every D-Men in the NHL must be a high end skater. This is not at all true. Proof - just look who plays D for the Knights and Caps. However those teams are far better coached playing D systems that actually make sense.

Now do not be mistaken. This does not mean I am comfortable with the contract given to Seabs by Bowman. I actually think this contract is absolutely insane with respect to both money and term. Although I have always been a fan of Seabs I would understand if he was shopped. Same for Toews.

- Z3Hawk



100% dead on correct. Whatever system Q/Ulf are running is a joke. Whole team was upside down. Do we expect Q to really change up what he is doing at this stage of his career?
Savoy
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Spencer, NC
Joined: 01.15.2014

May 27 @ 4:18 PM ET
First Bowman refused to sign Saad and dumped him. Then he trades a genuine superstar to get lowly Saad back in order to supposedly reinvigorate Toews. A disaster!! Now he wants to trade Toews. And on and on with Bowman. Is this what the Hawks and especially the Hawk fans deserve to have for a 'gm'?
breadbag
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 11.30.2015

May 27 @ 4:21 PM ET
Hawks could certainly benefit from Seabrook figuring things out, because while he played better to close the season, he still wasn't up to par with his usual self. Some of it is based on who he played with but he still doesn't look like a 100% healthy Seabrook to me.

Let's talk about some stat categories where typically Seabrook adds value.

Hits - Seabrook was at his lowest hit total since his rookie season and less than half the amount he was throwing in his best years. He had 85 hits last year in 81 games. In 2010-2011 he has 227 in 82 games. Even in the lockout shortened year (47 GP) he had 106 hits.

Blocks - He still got in the way just as much as usual.

Giveaways - Seabrook has been giving the puck away at an alarming rate in the last 3 seasons. Seabrook was credited with 249 giveaways in his first 6 years in the NHL and he was credited with 248 giveaways in the last 3 seasons. We used to see a lot of those nice long passes from Seabrook to send the Hawks on the attack, but that was rare lately IMO. I'm sure some of it might be change of tactics, but I don't think it should be so dramatic. Seabrook and the Hawks in general need to find a way to better manage the puck under pressure.

Ice-time - He isn't eating the 22-24 minutes he did in his prime clocking in at just over 20 minutes (near his career low of his rookie season), but an interesting thing to note is that he still got a lot of shifts, but his average shift time was a career low.

At bit similar is Keith, who had just as many shifts as he did in his career high 2010 season, but who's shift time was lowest since his first two years in the league. Tough to draw too many conclusions around the other Hawks D because most of them don't have much track record, but I think we are seeing the miles catch up to these two. The Hawks need to pass the torch on D and start finding the next guys who can lead on the blueline.

The Hawks D would look so much better if they find a legit 1RD and get Seabrook to regain some of his usual form at 2RD.
BetweenTheDots
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 06.13.2015

May 27 @ 5:07 PM ET
First Bowman refused to sign Saad and dumped him. Then he trades a genuine superstar to get lowly Saad back in order to supposedly reinvigorate Toews. A disaster!! Now he wants to trade Toews. And on and on with Bowman. Is this what the Hawks and especially the Hawk fans deserve to have for a 'gm'?
- Savoy


Really unfair when he constantly was walking the tight rope between, winning a cup, staying cap compliant and doing what he thought was best for the team in the moment and immediate future. And for his efforts us fans got a total of not 1 not 2 but 3 Cups,

I bet my left .... many other teams would be ducking ecstatic with 1 Cup. Take a long look at teams like the Canucks/Peg/Bolts/Caps/Preds just to name a few.

I just can't believe how unfair fans can be.

Is it spoiled, entitlement, instant gratification, fans of other teams acting like Hawks fans, i just marvel at the nearsidedness of fans.

Ahhhhhhh
TTtime
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.17.2015

May 27 @ 5:18 PM ET
At least this Seabrook trade talk is over. He is simply unmovable...unless you offer multiple picks/prospects for someone to take his deal, he is no longer a viable NHL player. I love this guy for what he did, but he can't do it anymore...the excuses that he played with this guy or that guy are ridiculous. His partner had ZERO to do with him getting easily walked wide time and time again, because he no longer can play at the speed of the NHL in 2018. It's over. He'll be a niche' third pairing guy making huge bucks for a long time. It's part of the reason the Hawks are now an afterthought in the NHL pecking order. Dumb management.
- kwolf68

Bullpoop.
TTtime
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.17.2015

May 27 @ 5:19 PM ET
Now we have the EK rumor of Toews and the NJ Devils. I mean where does he get this stuff?
- z1990z

Guess.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

May 27 @ 5:41 PM ET
In response to Eklund....Toews for Hall
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

May 27 @ 5:46 PM ET
Ya it’s definitely the fault of Seabrook’s partner when it’s a 2v2 through the neutral zone and 7 gets burned wide creating a 2v1 or a gradeA scoring chance or sustained o-zone time. Seabrook cannot stay with his man and that creates issues for the 5 man group. Some of you live in a fantasy world with your vision clouded by the past glory of this team. 7 was healthy scratched for a reason, bc he played like a 5/6D for $7mil. There’s nothing but a prayer he gets back to Top Pair level again given his age, body type, and mileage/injury history.

#FireStan
D2D
Joined: 05.27.2018

May 27 @ 8:30 PM ET
Hawks could certainly benefit from Seabrook figuring things out, because while he played better to close the season, he still wasn't up to par with his usual self. Some of it is based on who he played with but he still doesn't look like a 100% healthy Seabrook to me.

Let's talk about some stat categories where typically Seabrook adds value.

Hits - Seabrook was at his lowest hit total since his rookie season and less than half the amount he was throwing in his best years. He had 85 hits last year in 81 games. In 2010-2011 he has 227 in 82 games. Even in the lockout shortened year (47 GP) he had 106 hits.

Blocks - He still got in the way just as much as usual.

Giveaways - Seabrook has been giving the puck away at an alarming rate in the last 3 seasons. Seabrook was credited with 249 giveaways in his first 6 years in the NHL and he was credited with 248 giveaways in the last 3 seasons. We used to see a lot of those nice long passes from Seabrook to send the Hawks on the attack, but that was rare lately IMO. I'm sure some of it might be change of tactics, but I don't think it should be so dramatic. Seabrook and the Hawks in general need to find a way to better manage the puck under pressure.

Ice-time - He isn't eating the 22-24 minutes he did in his prime clocking in at just over 20 minutes (near his career low of his rookie season), but an interesting thing to note is that he still got a lot of shifts, but his average shift time was a career low.

At bit similar is Keith, who had just as many shifts as he did in his career high 2010 season, but who's shift time was lowest since his first two years in the league. Tough to draw too many conclusions around the other Hawks D because most of them don't have much track record, but I think we are seeing the miles catch up to these two. The Hawks need to pass the torch on D and start finding the next guys who can lead on the blueline.

The Hawks D would look so much better if they find a legit 1RD and get Seabrook to regain some of his usual form at 2RD.

- breadbag


Time to chime in on the Seabrook saga! First of all, he is a stand up and first rate and team guy that the fan base adores but having said that, Brent's play has certainly diminished. He is at best a 3rd pairing with 3rd pairing minutes with PK duty and maybe PP duty depending on scheme and personnel. Like many have stated, his skating is not up to par. Most have commented on his foot speed but I would also add his edge work such as starts and stops and tight turns. When a opposing forward comes in with speed and control Seabs is in trouble. His gap is bad and then when he stops its generally at least 3 feet from the puck carrier and to compound that, his stops are facing the other way and not the puck carrier.
His contract is an albatross and a willing partner will definitely have to take on money and term or a have a direct match in contract which will be almost impossible given his situation. If he is moved, I could see him going back to his native BC ala Vancouver or Edmonton where he will be more of a mentor for young D talent.
Savoy
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Spencer, NC
Joined: 01.15.2014

May 27 @ 9:37 PM ET
Really unfair when he constantly was walking the tight rope between, winning a cup, staying cap compliant and doing what he thought was best for the team in the moment and immediate future. And for his efforts us fans got a total of not 1 not 2 but 3 Cups,

I bet my left .... many other teams would be ducking ecstatic with 1 Cup. Take a long look at teams like the Canucks/Peg/Bolts/Caps/Preds just to name a few.

I just can't believe how unfair fans can be.

Is it spoiled, entitlement, instant gratification, fans of other teams acting like Hawks fans, i just marvel at the nearsidedness of fans.

Ahhhhhhh

- BetweenTheDots[/quote

Unfair? I have never read even once on this board where anybody even the company line apologists ever described Bowman as being an above average gm. Not once. Is that what you are defending as the best this team should have? Are you happy with that? I'm not.
Z3Hawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.04.2017

May 28 @ 3:09 AM ET
First Bowman refused to sign Saad and dumped him. Then he trades a genuine superstar to get lowly Saad back in order to supposedly reinvigorate Toews. A disaster!! Now he wants to trade Toews. And on and on with Bowman. Is this what the Hawks and especially the Hawk fans deserve to have for a 'gm'?
- Savoy


Panarin is not “a genuine superstar.” Where were you when Panarin completely disappeared in games 3 to 6?
Z3Hawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.04.2017

May 28 @ 3:28 AM ET
Ya it’s definitely the fault of Seabrook’s partner when it’s a 2v2 through the neutral zone and 7 gets burned wide creating a 2v1 or a gradeA scoring chance or sustained o-zone time. Seabrook cannot stay with his man and that creates issues for the 5 man group. Some of you live in a fantasy world with your vision clouded by the past glory of this team. 7 was healthy scratched for a reason, bc he played like a 5/6D for $7mil. There’s nothing but a prayer he gets back to Top Pair level again given his age, body type, and mileage/injury history.

#FireStan

- EnzoD


Seabrook was minus 3 after somehow being plus for most of the season. Keith was MINUS 29 - MINUS 29. Where is your Keith attack? Seems you didn’t notice the CONSTANT odd-man breaks against that both Seabrook and Keith dealt with. You state “creates issues for the 5 man group” - that was the whole problem with the Hawks last season, the team NEVER played as a 5 man group. Seabrook was scratched once because he found it hard to buy into the defensive insanity. So did Keith. The clueless coaches simply didn’t have the nads to sit Seabrook AND Keith out. If you read Murphy’s comments you get a feel for how absolutely dysfunctional the locker room was. However, Enzo you go on and support Q and Ulf and their “5 man group” system where players were constantly caught out of position.
Z3Hawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.04.2017

May 28 @ 3:34 AM ET
100% dead on correct. Whatever system Q/Ulf are running is a joke. Whole team was upside down. Do we expect Q to really change up what he is doing at this stage of his career?
- z1990z


The more I think about it the more infuriated I get that Q and Ulf are back. Need a complete overhaul of the D system. Maybe Colliton can show them how it is done.
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