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Forums :: Blog World :: Ryan Wilson: Kuhnahckl boondoggle
Author Message
madmike71
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 12.21.2006

May 15 @ 11:49 PM ET
Because every team, be it the Pens the last 2 years or any of the 4 teams left this year, have players that are below average "possession" players. With the salary cap, you can't pay all of your 3rd and 4th liners 3 million.

If you think there are upgrades for the same or close to the same salary, then fine. But those players will also have, at best, a limited skillset...otherwise they'd be making more. So whether it's Kuhnahckl or some other random 4th line vet making close to the league minimum, his "possession" numbers will look less than optimal and I'm sure RW will make mountains out of a mole hill on the subject.

Also, somehow, a very good coach in Mike Sullivan thought it wise to play him regularly despite Kuhnahckl being the worst player in NHL history. Maybe there's more to a player's game than attempted shots when he's on the ice.

Edit: I say spoiled because you guys seem to expect all 18 skaters to be great players, or to at least all be above average "possrdsion" players, and that just will not be the case.

- jmatchett383


I know you're one of the more rational people around here, but I think you're making a mountain out of molehill with this RW column. I don't always agree with RW and I'm not a big fancy stat fan, but in this case RW is spot on. Kuhnhackl isn't very good and they should look to replace him....whether in-house, trade of FA.

Here's where I'll agree with you, Carter Rowney is the worst center in NHL history and Kuhnhackl had zero chance playing with that boat anchor during the regular season. I would largely negate a lot of Kuhny's stats this season based on this.

There are bargains every year in the NHL. Matt Cullen made 1m or less the last 3 years. My ideal bargain would be able to skate above all else. I'm not expecting a point machine.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

May 16 @ 7:33 AM ET
Because every team, be it the Pens the last 2 years or any of the 4 teams left this year, have players that are below average "possession" players. With the salary cap, you can't pay all of your 3rd and 4th liners 3 million.

If you think there are upgrades for the same or close to the same salary, then fine. But those players will also have, at best, a limited skillset...otherwise they'd be making more. So whether it's Kuhnahckl or some other random 4th line vet making close to the league minimum, his "possession" numbers will look less than optimal and I'm sure RW will make mountains out of a mole hill on the subject.

Also, somehow, a very good coach in Mike Sullivan thought it wise to play him regularly despite Kuhnahckl being the worst player in NHL history. Maybe there's more to a player's game than attempted shots when he's on the ice.

Edit: I say spoiled because you guys seem to expect all 18 skaters to be great players, or to at least all be above average "possrdsion" players, and that just will not be the case.

- jmatchett383

I'd rather give ZAR, who's on ELC, Kuhnhackl's role full time and I think Simon has more utility as a 4th liner assuming we already have enough penalty killers. Its as simple as that.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

May 16 @ 7:34 AM ET
Would you play Rust on the 4th line given he would get around 8-10 minutes a game? Possibly more if he jumps around a little.
- Aussiepenguin

I don't get the point of this question seeing as how Rust is firmly entrenched in the top 9. He'll probably be our 3LW next season. Could be our 2LW if Hagelin is moved.
Aussiepenguin
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Sydney
Joined: 08.02.2014

May 16 @ 8:04 AM ET
I don't get the point of this question seeing as how Rust is firmly entrenched in the top 9. He'll probably be our 3LW next season. Could be our 2LW if Hagelin is moved.
- Victoro311


It's just that he played well when he's actually played on the 4th line, & with the depth above him it would be possible to give him his own line. Have an actual 4 line team that can play & score against most other lines. How do you defend against that?
Barnaby36
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Former Orpik44
Joined: 02.22.2013

May 16 @ 8:19 AM ET
Carolina in selling mode. We should go get Justin Faulk (whom I think is overrated) or one of their wingers. Hanifin will get a steep raise for us to accommodate him.
j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

May 16 @ 8:43 AM ET
That's not going to happen, & is 1 of the silliest things you've said - & you've said some pretty ordinary stuff.
- Aussiepenguin


nah.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

May 16 @ 8:51 AM ET
It's just that he played well when he's actually played on the 4th line, & with the depth above him it would be possible to give him his own line. Have an actual 4 line team that can play & score against most other lines. How do you defend against that?
- Aussiepenguin

No you don't put one of your four best wings and your second best left winger on the fourth line unless he needs a wake up call.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 16 @ 8:59 AM ET
No you don't put one of your four best wings and your second best left winger on the fourth line unless he needs a wake up call.
- Victoro311

Everything is backwards down under so your 4th line is actually your 1st line.
Aussiepenguin
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Sydney
Joined: 08.02.2014

May 16 @ 9:01 AM ET
No you don't put one of your four best wings and your second best left winger on the fourth line unless he needs a wake up call.
- Victoro311


Evolution my man. Kessel is 1 of our best Wings & has spent a lot of time on the 3rd line. Games changing, why wouldn't you attack with all 4 lines if you have the depth to do it?
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 16 @ 9:20 AM ET
Evolution my man. Kessel is 1 of our best Wings & has spent a lot of time on the 3rd line. Games changing, why wouldn't you attack with all 4 lines if you have the depth to do it?
- Aussiepenguin

Weird how that 3rd line forward was 3rd on the team in 5v5 TOI per game out of the forwards.
Aussiepenguin
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Sydney
Joined: 08.02.2014

May 16 @ 9:26 AM ET
Weird how that 3rd line forward was 3rd on the team in 5v5 TOI per game out of the forwards.
- Feds91Stammer


Your missing the point...............again!

As I've said before, don't reply to my comments.

Maybe too many weights, not enough speed work, bro!
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

May 16 @ 9:32 AM ET
Carolina in selling mode. We should go get Justin Faulk (whom I think is overrated) or one of their wingers. Hanifin will get a steep raise for us to accommodate him.
- Barnaby36


With one year left on his contract, I'm curious what they'd want for Skinner.
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

May 16 @ 9:43 AM ET
Carolina in selling mode. We should go get Justin Faulk (whom I think is overrated) or one of their wingers. Hanifin will get a steep raise for us to accommodate him.
- Barnaby36



What the F is up with that anyway? I was just reading Bob McKenzie's comments about it. They have a a good young up and coming group IMO. I was surprised they didnt make playoffs the way they were playing.
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

May 16 @ 9:43 AM ET
With one year left on his contract, I'm curious what they'd want for Skinner.
- Rinosaur


Hags + a pick....one can dream...
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 16 @ 9:44 AM ET
Your missing the point...............again!

As I've said before, don't reply to my comments.

Maybe too many weights, not enough speed work, bro!

- Aussiepenguin

Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 16 @ 9:44 AM ET
With one year left on his contract, I'm curious what they'd want for Skinner.
- Rinosaur

1st and a top prospect
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

May 16 @ 9:51 AM ET
1st and a top prospect
- Feds91Stammer


Yeah thats more like it.
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

May 16 @ 9:51 AM ET
1st and a top prospect
- Feds91Stammer


They're going to have to take a roster player back with some salary I'd think.

Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 16 @ 9:57 AM ET
They're going to have to take a roster player back with some salary I'd think.
- Rinosaur

Meh. Not really necessary in the offseason. Caps shipped out Johannson last offseason without taking a roster player back.
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

May 16 @ 9:57 AM ET
I'd still rather the Pens stack their defense than change the forward position.

Dump Hunwick's salary and spend $5Mish on Green for a couple of years.

Dumo/Letang
Maatta/Green
Oleksiak/Schultz

If they can upgrade from Oleksiak, then even better



Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

May 16 @ 9:59 AM ET
Meh. Not really necessary in the offseason. Caps shipped out Johannson last offseason without taking a roster player back.
- Feds91Stammer


True, but I think that was more of an exception than the rule. NJ was a team looking to build, there was term on Johannson and NJ had the cap space.

Not saying it can't happen, but I think the only teams that would be interested in one year of Skinner are playoff-bound teams and most of them are probably tighter in cap space.

EDIT: I also don't mean a full match of salary. Maybe just a player with a couple of mil for a year or two.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

May 16 @ 10:06 AM ET
Your missing the point...............again!

As I've said before, don't reply to my comments.

Maybe too many weights, not enough speed work, bro!

- Aussiepenguin

But he's right though...

Kessel still gets a lot of TOI because we role our 3rd line at ES an above average amount and he's on the PP. The 4th line will only get ~10 minutes and Rust doesn't get PP time. Limiting Rust to like 12 minutes including PP time a night is a super bad idea.
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

May 16 @ 10:08 AM ET
But he's right though...

Kessel still gets a lot of TOI because we role our 3rd line at ES an above average amount and he's on the PP. The 4th line will only get ~10 minutes and Rust doesn't get PP time. Limiting Rust to like 12 minutes including PP time a night is a super bad idea.

- Victoro311


Not to go off on a tangent, but I'm going to...

I love how last year the reports came out about the rift between Kessel and Sully, then through the year how everything was resolved and there are no issues. Kessel has a poor post-season and the Pens lose, so what are we hearing again? Kessel and Sully issues.

Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

May 16 @ 10:15 AM ET
Not to go off on a tangent, but I'm going to...

I love how last year the reports came out about the rift between Kessel and Sully, then through the year how everything was resolved and there are no issues. Kessel has a poor post-season and the Pens lose, so what are we hearing again? Kessel and Sully issues.

- Rinosaur

The media just doesn't like Phil because he doesn't talk to them. They ask silly questions, get no comment answers, and then take that as a blank check to assume things. Even Yohe is falling prey to it right now, and Mackey has been trying to trade Phil since this past off season. Its stupid and not worth giving attention to.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 16 @ 10:44 AM ET
The media just doesn't like Phil because he doesn't talk to them. They ask silly questions, get no comment answers, and then take that as a blank check to assume things. Even Yohe is falling prey to it right now, and Mackey has been trying to trade Phil since this past off season. Its stupid and not worth giving attention to.
- Victoro311

Need to trade him for a character guy like Abdelkader imo
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