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Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: Those Guys Are Better: Washington Capitals
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Rayipsd
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Naperville, IL
Joined: 02.16.2018

May 17 @ 5:36 PM ET
[quote=Rayipsd]
I think it is important to remember the Panarin trade was more of a reflection on Toews than it was on Panarin. By that I mean the front office was thinking we need to get someone to play with Toews he cant carry his line mats. While Kane could play with an AHLer and he will lift up his line mates play. This is what bothered me most about the Panarin trade it was done because of Toews poor and declining play. And it did not work. The hawks and the media protect Toews. For the past 3 season it has been" He needs better player to play on his line the current guys are dragging him down" Or" he must be hurt" Imagine any other player getting protected like this.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

May 17 @ 6:04 PM ET
Meanwhile, Patrick Kane carrying Team USA on his shoulders with another dominant game vs the Czech's to help USA to the Final 4! I want to see these highlights.....

https://www.new-iihf.com/...ws/3160/team-usa-to-semis

"Just as penalty ended, Patrick Kane took the puck from his own zone, raced up the ice on the right wing into the Czech zone sending a shot far side that beat Francouz at 10:36. As he has done the entire tournament, Kane provided the offensive spark that his team needed. It was the captain’s seventh goal of the tournament and his first scored at even strength. All six of his previous goals were scored on the power play. Derek Ryan added an assist. .....nce again Patrick Kane was able to lift the Americans. Kane scored his second goal when he took the puck and faked out defenceman Filip Hronek, who fell to the ice, and created a 2-on-1. Kane opted for the shot and beat the netminder to make it 3-2 at 6:58 of the third.

Showing his tantalizing skillset, Kane attempted a spin-o-rama and able to get a shot off that hit the crossbar. His game was elevated and he was active in all zones."

MAKING THOSE AROUND YOU BETTER IS WHAT PATRICK KANE DOES. The only Superstar left on the Chicago Blackhawks. He will finish as the Greatest American Born Hockey Player in history...if he isn't already!

EDIT: I found the highlights....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eehCur6xSYk

- EnzoD


Sweet Jeebus, Its amazing what Kane can do with a little extra space. Those shots are pure evil (albeit against an inferior tender). Looks like he's having a blast as well.
breadbag
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 11.30.2015

May 17 @ 6:13 PM ET
He wasn’t paid $10.5M simply for past performance, in the same way that Kane wasn’t. Same for Crosby and Ovie. Toews was given $10.5M to perform at an elite level moving forward - as in best in NHL level. The team may have thought that at a point later in the contract there may be overpayment but the team didn’t believe it would happen immedietely. It is not about the $10.5M it is about Toews doing everything possible to perform at a high level - and he has not done this. Talk to Kane, talk to Goodman. Talk to the infinite list of experts and nutritionists that the Hawks would have connections with. Internet gurus - NO! Your GF - NO! Your water skiing buddies - NO! Start actually acting like a Leader in name and action and not as a spoiled, clueless teen-ager.
- Z3Hawk


Please provide something to back up these statements that Toews doesn't train hard, doesn't listen to the trainers, coaches, nutritionists and that he doesn't act like a leader. Do you have statements from Kane, Goodman, etc..that demonstrate he is as lazy as you claim? He and Kane got paid because of what they did in the playoffs. Scoring big goals and winning cups. I think that is the difference between getting 7-8 million and getting 10 when you are the face of a franchise like this IMO. The sad fact is that last year, nobody of the core but Crawford played to their salary.
Hawkytalk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Frankfort, IL
Joined: 06.26.2012

May 17 @ 6:15 PM ET
Sweet Jeebus, Its amazing what Kane can do with a little extra space. Those shots are pure evil (albeit against an inferior tender). Looks like he's having a blast as well.
- Chunk


He likes that big Ice too. Lots more room to create with his incredible passing skills. Yeah I think he's having a blast too.
breadbag
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 11.30.2015

May 17 @ 6:29 PM ET
I cannot get a read on JT- if this is a decline or something else. Yes he is scoring less, but last year his numbers (corsi, fenwick, etc) were just below 2014-2015 numbers, and far better than the previous 2 years (and his corsi was less than 2 points behind Crosby).

https://www.hockey-refere...t/toewsjo01-advanced.html

So his peripherals were better, but his shot is off. From Scott Cullen:

It’s natural to see scoring 52 points, his lowest in a full season, and figure that the 30-year-old is just hitting decline after more than a decade of top-tier performance. The thing is, though, that Toews has been held under 60 points for three years running, and yet last season he was utterly dominant at 5-on-5 play (http://hockeyviz.com/fixe...i/1718/CHI/toewsjo88/wrap ); he just needed someone on his line who could finish (or, you know, he could have shot better than a career-worst 9.5%).

So is this burn-out? Playing with sub-par or rotating talent? Is his shot less effective or was he unlucky? Injury issues? The reason we are all arguing is because we have no idea what is going on (and maybe he does not know either).

Would be great if he was paid less, but at the time he signed his contract some of you were arguing why he should be considered to be better than Crosby. Would be great to have some of that money back, but that is not going to happen.

- Revco38


Well reasoned post. Personally I think the top line was lacking finish from Toews/Saad and suffered from not having a playmaker with them, because Panik was another guy who is more of a finisher but struggled because he really isn't a top 6 forward in terms of his hockey IQ on the ice. Some areas like the PP improved once the were working the puck up high with Kane/Toews/Gustaffson.
z1990z
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: NW USA
Joined: 02.09.2012

May 17 @ 6:34 PM ET
Well reasoned post. Personally I think the top line was lacking finish from Toews/Saad and suffered from not having a playmaker with them, because Panik was another guy who is more of a finisher but struggled because he really isn't a top 6 forward in terms of his hockey IQ on the ice. Some areas like the PP improved once the were working the puck up high with Kane/Toews/Gustaffson.
- breadbag



Did Panarin ever play on the Toews line?
walleyeb1
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Petersburg, IL
Joined: 09.25.2014

May 17 @ 7:09 PM ET
It didn't start 3 years ago, only this past year. 2 years ago, he had the back injury that affected his game until mid season when he played excellent. For the 2015-2016 season, I'm not sure what was the case then.
- ToewsdNKanefusd


2017/18 Toews ranked 41st in ppg with 0.70

2016/17 Toews ranked 18th in ppg with 0.81

In 2015/16 Toews ranked 27th with 0.73

2014/15 he was in a three way tie ranked 16th with 0.81

2013/14 Toews ranked 11th in ppg with 0.89

2012/13 Toews ranked 8th in ppg with 1.02

2011/12 Toews ranked 7th in ppg with 0.97

2010/11 Toews ranked 8th in ppg with 0.95

2009/10Toews ranked 16th in ppg with 0.89
Tatoo
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Montreal, QC
Joined: 12.17.2016

May 17 @ 7:16 PM ET
Can we stop with this trading Toews stuff.We don't know what kind of injuries he been going through the last 3years.Again this year he didn't play the last 10games or so.He has taken a beating with this team and I'm sure it has taken its toll on him.Take a look at his goal total over the last 10 years and compare it to Kane's ,he is only 20 goals behind.Yes all of us wants him to produce more,but he does so much more for this team.So instead of throwing him under the bus,let's try and back him.Hopefully Bowman can get someone in the off season to play rw and someone who can kill penalty's to give him a break from being on the ice alot.I don't see Kane on the KP.
Go Hawks Go
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

May 17 @ 7:39 PM ET
Lots of European free agents being signed by teams lately. Hawks so far have inked Kahun. Who's next for Bowman?
matt_ahrens
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: San Carlos, CA
Joined: 06.30.2014

May 17 @ 8:13 PM ET
I cannot get a read on JT- if this is a decline or something else. Yes he is scoring less, but last year his numbers (corsi, fenwick, etc) were just below 2014-2015 numbers, and far better than the previous 2 years (and his corsi was less than 2 points behind Crosby).

https://www.hockey-refere...t/toewsjo01-advanced.html

So his peripherals were better, but his shot is off. From Scott Cullen:

It’s natural to see scoring 52 points, his lowest in a full season, and figure that the 30-year-old is just hitting decline after more than a decade of top-tier performance. The thing is, though, that Toews has been held under 60 points for three years running, and yet last season he was utterly dominant at 5-on-5 play (http://hockeyviz.com/fixe...i/1718/CHI/toewsjo88/wrap ); he just needed someone on his line who could finish (or, you know, he could have shot better than a career-worst 9.5%).

So is this burn-out? Playing with sub-par or rotating talent? Is his shot less effective or was he unlucky? Injury issues? The reason we are all arguing is because we have no idea what is going on (and maybe he does not know either).

Would be great if he was paid less, but at the time he signed his contract some of you were arguing why he should be considered to be better than Crosby. Would be great to have some of that money back, but that is not going to happen.

- Revco38


all of the above?
6628
Joined: 08.24.2009

May 17 @ 8:26 PM ET
Ouch, Kempney
Z3Hawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.04.2017

May 17 @ 8:52 PM ET
Please provide something to back up these statements that Toews doesn't train hard, doesn't listen to the trainers, coaches, nutritionists and that he doesn't act like a leader. Do you have statements from Kane, Goodman, etc..that demonstrate he is as lazy as you claim? He and Kane got paid because of what they did in the playoffs. Scoring big goals and winning cups. I think that is the difference between getting 7-8 million and getting 10 when you are the face of a franchise like this IMO. The sad fact is that last year, nobody of the core but Crawford played to their salary.
- breadbag


Yes I just made up Machu Pichu and Onnit and water skiing videos and no Toews when Kane trains with other players in Chicago. Most importantly I just made up Toews’ own words when he says himself he has felt too bulky, then too sluggish, then too slow. Concerns me when he talks about things being more organic in the past when the team has had success - indicates to me that as he got older he didn’t work harder but just thought he would be able to get by. As another poster said he seems confused.

I’m not even one of the people saying to trade him. I just want him to be more prepared, to play better, to actually come closer to earning his contract. I even grant him the intangibles. However, the Hawks need him to be a force like Captains Crosby and Ovie are for their teams - and they are older. Toews cannot just be given a pass - for $10.5M there must be production.
Slofire94
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: CA
Joined: 01.17.2016

May 17 @ 9:33 PM ET
Did Panarin ever play on the Toews line?
- z1990z


Never for very long, supposedly their style of play didn't mesh, or something
Abadseed
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Arlington hts, IL
Joined: 01.20.2014

May 17 @ 9:40 PM ET
WHY do you all keep beating the dead horse we all agree toews isn’t playing up to his 10.5 contract who truly does? You can argue Kane isn’t worth his contract even though his play has remained good. The bottom line isn’t with the nmc given out 2/7/19/88 aren’t leaving unless they want too. We’re all spoiled as hawks fans with our team winning three titles so close. If we have to deal with dark days so be it. After waiting 49 years between cups I consider us all lucky.
bogiedoc
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: VA
Joined: 09.27.2011

May 17 @ 9:43 PM ET
vas is keeping the bolts in this one....could easy be 5-2...caps are dominating play...

bolts didn't have a sog for over 20 minutes...too busy killing pens
BetweenTheDots
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 06.13.2015

May 17 @ 9:48 PM ET
Holtby just bailed out Oshie
BetweenTheDots
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 06.13.2015

May 17 @ 9:56 PM ET
Of all 4 teams in it, Vegas the most responsible team with and without the puck, for that reason really wouldn't surprise me if they win the whole thing. But boy oh boy that Winnepeg team is so frickin talented.
dpard
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: My preferred gender pronoun is "Corn Pop"
Joined: 04.18.2011

May 17 @ 10:25 PM ET
It's not a narrative, it's a fact.
- EnzoD


I'm waiting
bogiedoc
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: VA
Joined: 09.27.2011

May 17 @ 10:54 PM ET
another one of those goalie wins...caps had every op to put this one away in the 2nd and vas played huge...

bolts outplayed but get a win...

still like the bolts vs the jets in the finals...
frafra
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 10.21.2011

May 17 @ 11:28 PM ET
[quote=Rayipsd]


how will you feel if Panarin doesn't resign with Columbus next year? Looking at this years numbers, yes, Columbus won the deal. I would wait a little bit before final judgments on this one. The Hawks got two more years with Saad than they would have with Panarin.

I absolutely miss Panarin. But getting Saad back also seems like a long term play.

just my opinion.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

May 18 @ 1:55 AM ET
[quote=frafra]

Panarin will sign here as a UFA to reunite with on-ice BFF Paddy Kane
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

May 18 @ 1:57 AM ET
What team tightens the screws?
The Jets, more likely Vegas Knights
Tampa or the Caps,
Not too much

Oh, btw, about that controversial Vegas team name,
Irregardless should they win the Cup,
The marketing department promotes them:
Come see your shining Knights in armor
They could even put up a team picture
Right above the collage of Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Mathews, the Winnipeg Jets
breadbag
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 11.30.2015

May 18 @ 2:13 AM ET
Yes I just made up Machu Pichu and Onnit and water skiing videos and no Toews when Kane trains with other players in Chicago. Most importantly I just made up Toews’ own words when he says himself he has felt too bulky, then too sluggish, then too slow. Concerns me when he talks about things being more organic in the past when the team has had success - indicates to me that as he got older he didn’t work harder but just thought he would be able to get by. As another poster said he seems confused.

I’m not even one of the people saying to trade him. I just want him to be more prepared, to play better, to actually come closer to earning his contract. I even grant him the intangibles. However, the Hawks need him to be a force like Captains Crosby and Ovie are for their teams - and they are older. Toews cannot just be given a pass - for $10.5M there must be production.

- Z3Hawk


Sure he can play better but I don't think a vacation photo, enjoying water skiing, or endorsing a supplement should be extrapolated into assumptions that seem somewhat out of character. These guys are human beings. I'd be more surprised if he didn't take a vacation or take time to recover over the summer. It's not like they spend every waking moment training. When he does talk about training and making changes to his routine in the offseason it sounds like he has put thought or discussed it with trainers. When asked he mentioned skipping the IIHF tourney to make sure he is doing what he needs for next fall. The guy is one of the most successful hockey players the Hawks have ever had and captain of the team for a reason. I don't think he quit training hard. I don't see how any of it makes him a spoiled clueless teenager. Most of it is frustration Imo. He obviously seems to want the results on the ice and with a camera crew or two in his face after a first round sweep or a playoff miss season I am not surprised he talks about changing his training. He can play better and so can nearly every vet on the team. This season is done and how they move forward is important.
breadbag
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 11.30.2015

May 18 @ 2:17 AM ET
Never for very long, supposedly their style of play didn't mesh, or something
- Slofire94


I think they also liked keeping AA with Panarin.
ToewsdNKanefusd
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Hampshire, IL
Joined: 05.14.2015

May 18 @ 8:29 AM ET
It's been 3 years, not just last year
- PatShart


My point is that there are reasons why the first two years of the past three were not as good for Toews. 2015-2016: coming off of 3 straight conference finals appearances and two cups, 2016-2017: back injury (which he actually returned to his old self for the last half of the season), 2017-2018: decline in play not due to any other circumstances. However, he had stated that he tried to get leaner and faster, which I believe is what caused his subpar play this year. I think he knows this and will do some different things this offseason to prepare and be better next year.

This is why I don't understand all the "Toews sucks now and will never be good again", as there is really only one year where his sub par play was not due to some mitigating circumstances, and I'm willing to bet that he will be better.
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