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Bill Meltzer: Game 3 Wrap: Penguins Down Flyers, 5-1 - bmeltzer
Bill (or anyone up for a legit discussion):
Serious questions
(1) Thanks to your blog, I learned that the Pens held a full practice and the Flyers an optional one, which was apparently sparsely attended. Is there something of significance in the varying approaches? I assume the Pens traveled here and the practice was at W Fargo Center. I also assume that the Pens should be the more tired group, considering how deep the played last year. Is this an example of Hakstol's naivete?
(2) What is Hakstol's aversion to the utilization of a time out? This group, personified by tonight's meltdown, demonstrates an all too often tendency to strongly wilt at times. Also, I would think a timeout may have stemmed the hemorrhage of bad penalties (which were so mindlessly done...painful to watch). It seems that Coach has an inability to register the signals of when those occur in game.
(3) Do you agree that Raffl may be overmatched on the top line for an entire series? TK's zeal, jump and electricity seems to be wasted on the third line.
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interesting that Elliott kinda thru the blame on goal 4 on Giroux. Hakstol admitted he should have called a time out after goal 3 - nastyflyergirl
Has there been a timeout yet in the series? 3 blowouts and I do not recall a timeout yet. |
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MJL
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Candyland, PA Joined: 09.20.2007
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(3) Do you agree that Raffl may be overmatched on the top line for an entire series? TK's zeal, jump and electricity seems to be wasted on the third line. - Brad Marsh Fan
Raffl will go as the players he's playing with go in a top line situation. I think Konecny has done exactly what he was asked to do on that 3rd line. The question now is do they need Konecny to go to the top line to add a spark there. Not a bad idea. |
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SuperSchennBros
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Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot! Joined: 09.01.2012
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Let’s be real, this team was never going to win a Cup this year no matter what. Patrick, TK, Provorov, Lindblom and Sanheim are getting valuable playoff experience. Hopefully Hak will do the right thing and get Hagg some too.
In the long run, that is what really matters. These kids are the future and soon kids like Morin, Hart, Frost, Myers and a lot of others will be joining them. This is just the beginning, have faith. - BiggE
They're getting valuable playoff experience and making the most of it.
As for this series as a whole, we don't match up well against Pitt. Take the good with that bad from the series, enjoy the rest of the hockey and EXPECT to better next season. |
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nastyflyergirl
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: this space for rent, PA Joined: 09.19.2006
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I don't think that is an if, I think it's pretty much a guarantee. A player of his caliber playing at his normal level of play is worth that contract. There is always a risk in that. Will he bounce back, will he stay that player throughout the contract. There is merit to explore a trade in the right deal. There is also merit in re-signing him. - MJL
at 31, which is the age he will be when this deal expires, if he is asking for 6 million for 5-7 years i have to say no. |
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ggunky
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: I like cold beverages, NJ Joined: 04.09.2008
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Sometimes taking full advantage of a players value is to keep him on your team.
Claude Giroux just put up career highs in points and assists. I guess the Flyers should take full advantage of the value of the player this off season. - MJL
Different situations, different circumstances.
You need to look at each player and their situation differently.
Simmonds trade value last off season was the highest it will ever be. A player being paid way under his value and at that time was signed for 2 more years at that that number.
They Flyers weren't going to win the cup this year or next year for that matter, with Simmonds on the roster. Then after these 2 seasons the Flyers will then need to sign him to a big money deal for a term that will be longer then most will be comfortable with.
All of this factors into, last summer being, the optimal window for trading Simmonds. It truly was a no-brainer for anyone who was looking at things logically. |
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SuperSchennBros
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Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot! Joined: 09.01.2012
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So you completely discredit the actual scoring that Simmonds has done in his career because he doesn't create the scoring opportunities, he just finishes them? Makes sense. I don't see Nolan Patrick's future in the NHL on the PP as a net front presence. A player of Simmonds caliber is never expendable. That is ridiculous.
Simmonds has had a down year no doubt, but he has been a solid producer at 5 on 5 and on the PP in his career and if you can't see that then you haven't been watching very often. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he has a physical issue. Weal doesn't drive spit and even in this down year Weal is not half the player that Simmonds is. - MJL
No question. Well said. |
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FreshFlyer
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 09.17.2011
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Not the first time he has admitted he should have called a TO. - nastyflyergirl
Yet, he continues to basically never use them. Hak puzzles me in a lot of areas. |
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Mordecai
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: not very poggers Joined: 08.27.2015
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it's more likely than not that we've seen Wayne Simmonds best years as a hockey player pass. he is leaving the prime of his career and unlike Giroux, has suffered some serious physical abuse. |
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nastyflyergirl
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: this space for rent, PA Joined: 09.19.2006
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Raffl will go as the players he's playing with go in a top line situation. I think Konecny has done exactly what he was asked to do on that 3rd line. The question now is do they need Konecny to go to the top line to add a spark there. Not a bad idea. - MJL
I would absolutely go back to TK on the top line. Never wanted him moved but I get what the intent was. Honestly this is what happens when you still have major holes in your lineup. Regardless I am very happy to see young players like TK, Patrick and Sanheim get their first NHL goals and get experience. |
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MJL
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Candyland, PA Joined: 09.20.2007
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Different situations, different circumstances.
You need to look at each player and their situation differently.
- ggunky
Not really, pretty much the same concept.
Simmonds trade value last off season was the highest it will ever be. A player being paid way under his value and at that time was signed for 2 more years at that that number.
- ggunky
You don't know that for a fact. Simmonds could come back a have a big season next year, elevating his value.
They Flyers weren't going to win the cup this year or next year for that matter, with Simmonds on the roster. Then after these 2 seasons the Flyers will then need to sign him to a big money deal for a term that will be longer then most will be comfortable with.
- ggunky
You could say the same thing about a number of players on this team signed to long term deals. Who are most, the fans? How comfortable they will be is not relevant and will not in any way be a factor in what the Flyers decide to do with Simmonds.
All of this factors into the optimal window for trading Simmonds. It truly was a no-brainer for anyone who was looking at things logically. - ggunky
I find this statement to be ridiculously absurd. |
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MBFlyerfan
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Be nice from now on, NJ Joined: 03.17.2006
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at 31, which is the age he will be when this deal expires, if he is asking for 6 million for 5-7 years i have to say no. - nastyflyergirl
No way If I am the Flyers I give out that kind of contract to a 31 year old power forward. Been there, done that. Especially when you have prospects in the pipe.
That being said, For the first time in my life I turned off a Flyers playoff game before it was halfway over.
The blew their load in the first and came out down 1-0. When they went down 3-0 I knew it was over.
Its not our year so I hope these young kids take some good lessons. It is nice to see 4 of them so far getting their first career playoff goals.
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ggunky
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: I like cold beverages, NJ Joined: 04.09.2008
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Not really, pretty much the same concept.
You don't know that for a fact. Simmonds could come back a have a big season next year, elevating his value.
You could say the same thing about a number of players on this team signed to long term deals. Who are most, the fans? How comfortable they will be is not relevant and will not in any way be a factor in what the Flyers decide to do with Simmonds.
I find this statement to be ridiculously absurd. - MJL
Again, you are wrong on all points.
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SuperSchennBros
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Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot! Joined: 09.01.2012
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From a talent standpoint, Mike Knuble in a top six role was probably the least talented player on every line he's ever played on throughout his career but he was effective within his role. Unfortunately Wayne Simmonds doesn't play on a team with an embarrassment of riches in the talent department like Knuble did. Simmonds doesn't have Carter, Richards, Briere, Giroux and Gagne all on one team. Simmonds on this team is classed with Giroux and Voracek as being one of "The Guys" we look to for a big goal. |
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MJL
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Candyland, PA Joined: 09.20.2007
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it's more likely than not that we've seen Wayne Simmonds best years as a hockey player pass. he is leaving the prime of his career and unlike Giroux, has suffered some serious physical abuse. - Mordecai
I don't buy it. I think Simmonds rebounds next year and goes right back to being one of the better power forwards in the league. To this point we don't know what Simmonds physical issues are if any nor can we state for a fact that he has taken more abuse. Giroux is a smaller player who has played a lot of hard minutes at center in his career. He was able to bounce back. Time will tell is Simmonds does.
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FreshFlyer
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 09.17.2011
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I would absolutely go back to TK on the top line. Never wanted him moved but I get what the intent was. Honestly this is what happens when you still have major holes in your lineup. Regardless I am very happy to see young players like TK, Patrick and Sanheim get their first NHL goals and get experience. - nastyflyergirl
He should have been there all along. Guy has the 2nd most even strength goals only behind McDavid since Jan 1st and that was about the time he got put on that top line. Makes no sense to me how you could take him off that line to place him with Filppula and Simmonds. Sure I get the spreading out the depth but the Flyers shouldn't have messed with something working so well. |
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MJL
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Candyland, PA Joined: 09.20.2007
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Again, you are wrong on all points. - ggunky
Actually I'm not and we're finding out who really understands trade value. For example you completely disregarded value to the team in your trade value formula. By your formula, every player should be traded at the same point because of the asinine "his value will never be higher".
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Mordecai
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: not very poggers Joined: 08.27.2015
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From a talent standpoint, Mike Knuble in a top six role was probably the least talented player on every line he's ever played on throughout his career but he was effective within his role. Unfortunately Wayne Simmonds doesn't play on a team with an embarrassment of riches in the talent department like Knuble did. Simmonds doesn't have Carter, Richards, Briere, Giroux and Gagne all on one team. Simmonds on this team is classed with Giroux and Voracek as being one of "The Guys" we look to for a big goal. - SuperSchennBros
Knuble also never made more than 2.8m per year |
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opeth_pa
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: The Implication Joined: 12.13.2011
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Not that I think it matters because their offense is whats killing them in the series but for the love of the Clown what has Hagg done to warrant this?
I know..blah blah blah Chemistry between Manning and Gudas..That is getting them really far..
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arichardson22
Season Ticket Holder Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Philly, PA Joined: 06.10.2013
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I would trade Simmonds tomorrow. And I don’t mean that as in get him off the ice for this series. Just saying I don’t expect him back here nor do I expect Hexy to throw a contract at him based on his philosophy. Nor am I mad at him, just think his time in philly has run its course and I loved his run here and will always root for the guy (unless he’s in a Pens/Rags uniform). I do think if we traded him at last year’s draft (sorry MJL) we could have gotten a solid young player or roster player to play on this roster this whole season, plus a 1st. But oh well, we didn’t. |
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SuperSchennBros
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Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot! Joined: 09.01.2012
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No way If I am the Flyers I give out that kind of contract to a 31 year old power forward. Been there, done that. Especially when you have prospects in the pipe.
That being said, For the first time in my life I turned off a Flyers playoff game before it was halfway over.
The blew their load in the first and came out down 1-0. When they went down 3-0 I knew it was over.
Its not our year so I hope these young kids take some good lessons. It is nice to see 4 of them so far getting their first career playoff goals. - MBFlyerfan
In our pipeline, who replaces Simmonds? I'm not asking to be a jerk and I'm 100% with you on concern of what he could command in a new deal. However, when you talk about your players in the pipeline, who are you talking about? Who should I watch closely coming up to replace Wayne Simmonds? |
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FreshFlyer
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 09.17.2011
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I don't buy it. I think Simmonds rebounds next year and goes right back to being one of the better power forwards in the league. To this point we don't know what Simmonds physical issues are if any nor can we state for a fact that he has taken more abuse. Giroux is a smaller player who has played a lot of hard minutes at center in his career. He was able to bounce back. Time will tell is Simmonds does. - MJL
If its announced at the seasons end that Simmonds has no injuries and he's been playing this way I doubt we see him bounce back. If he is playing with multiple injuries right now then being healthy probably makes him a lot better. |
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ggunky
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: I like cold beverages, NJ Joined: 04.09.2008
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Actually I'm not and we're finding out who really understands trade value. For example you completely disregarded value to the team in your trade value formula. By your formula, every player should be traded at the same point because of the asinine "his value will never be higher". - MJL
Again, you are wrong.
His value will never be hire then it was in the summer of 2017.
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Mordecai
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: not very poggers Joined: 08.27.2015
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I don't buy it. I think Simmonds rebounds next year and goes right back to being one of the better power forwards in the league. To this point we don't know what Simmonds physical issues are if any nor can we state for a fact that he has taken more abuse. Giroux is a smaller player who has played a lot of hard minutes at center in his career. He was able to bounce back. Time will tell is Simmonds does. - MJL
i hope Simmonds comes back next year and tears it up. if the Flyers can win a cup or two with Simmonds on a long term deal i will have no problems with the last 3 or 4 years of his next contract.
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ggunky
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: I like cold beverages, NJ Joined: 04.09.2008
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In our pipeline, who replaces Simmonds? I'm not asking to be a jerk and I'm 100% with you on concern of what he could command in a new deal. However, when you talk about your players in the pipeline, who are you talking about? Who should I watch closely coming up to replace Wayne Simmonds? - SuperSchennBros
He doesn't need to be in the pipeline. He can be acquired through trade if said player isn't in the pipeline.
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