One last comment on Panarin/Saad....

The Salary Cap is going to rise as much as $7million this year. Panarin and Saad have matching Cap Hits until Summer of 2019. By that time, the Cap might be at $85mil or more, Anisimov and/or Hossa's contracts can likely be moved to Seattle or AZ, and the Hawks would've had PLENTY of Cap Space to give a PPG player like Panarin an $8mil x 8years contract (only a $2mil raise over his already accounted for $6mil contract). Pointing to "Cost-certainty" is completely moot bc the goal was to win Cups while Keith is still top pair (which is now debatable). Trading Panarin for Saad made the Hawks a significantly worse team, and that is an objective fact. You all can rationalize it and tell yourself "cost-certainty" bc it helps ease your mind when thinking about the fact that the Hawks traded an 80 point player for a 40 point player (36 this year). It's another horrid trade, and I promise to stop complaining about all of Stan Bowman's egregious errors that have Tanked this once great team to a bottom dwelling last place Lottery Team once Stan Bowman is fired as GM. Pinky Promise.
- EnzoD

Stan signed Toews and Kane to big contracts assuming there would be continue significant cap growth. How did that work out?

You liked the trade at the time. It's easy to look back and criticize now but in the moment that was a good deal. When you start off by applauding Stan for the trade it doesn't make your argument about it being "another horrible trade" valid. In year one the trade didn't get the results we hoped for, nobody is arguing otherwise. But we shouldn't be implying that this as a bad trade from day 1 and will always be bad trade.

You really covered the ramifications of the trade quite well. I will expound on one point and perhaps there may be contention over the natural consequence(s) of the perspective you take away.

Would you rather have a team of three strong lines, each hustle lines with good skill but not a bonafide star. Maybe sone nice developing players like DeBrincat and Schmaltz but mostly a few of the hustle, drive to net crease scorer man child Saad type (obviously when he is on his game)........ok, so three balanced lines, saying no true superstar........

OR
Three lines with a more up and down, north to south skaters not so much finess but you have that one star scorer as your difference maker. Who scores an awesome goal because he is not only a natural goal scorer, but rises to the occassion. Like Panarin did last night.

It is a three good balanced lines vs three say not as deep skill lines but this group had Panarin.

In a board game with dice and charts etc all the balanced lines with descent talent always keeps you in games. They beat a lot of teams that cannot match their strong depth. In reality might the lesser skilled team but which had elite Panarin be more desirable?
- jhawk59

superstars win stanley cups

Stan signed Toews and Kane to big contracts assuming there would be continue significant cap growth. How did that work out?

You liked the trade at the time. It's easy to look back and criticize now but in the moment that was a good deal. When you start off by applauding Stan for the trade it doesn't make your argument about it being "another horrible trade" valid. In year one the trade didn't get the results we hoped for, nobody is arguing otherwise. But we shouldn't be implying that this as a bad trade from day 1 and will always be bad trade.
- DarthKane

Pull the comments from the day of the trade and I was in shock. I was absolutely flabbergasted that they traded a talent like Panarin, but happy Saad was back. I had no concrete opinion on the trade, similar to the Hjallmarsson trade. But, lucky for me, it isn't my job to construct the Chicago Blackhawks roster. Even if Brandon Saad gets back to his career 50 point average and Panarin stays at his PPG 80 point pace, it is a bad trade. You simply dont trade point per game players just bc Saad is a little bit bigger. Now if Saad had grown to a 65 point player vs 80 from Panarin, you can live with that. Until I see a 30G 35A season from Saad, I stand by my opinion that it is yet another Stan Bowman trade that diminished the talent on the roster and put them in a worse place to compete for a Cup.

Again.....82 goals created by Panarin for $6mil VS 36 goals created by Saad for $6mil....how is this even a debate???? The entire hockey world is laughing at the Hawks. NBCSN said last night before showing CBJ vs WSH highlights, "close your eyes Hawks fans". Kathryn Tappen said, "Why did the Hawks trade this guy again?" Nobody can answer that except the "mastermind" Stan Bowman.

I wonder if he'll get a shot at TV commentary? I think he would be really good at that.
- 35Tony0

Just think alll the high end food each rink. Let him eat. If he doesn"t drink them he has a leg up on Pat Foley

You gotta be kidding me

You're happy we lost that all-world superstar for a 30-40pt per season caliber average joe?
- SimpleJack

So my choice of the word “happy” was probably wrong. It would have been more accurate to say I “accepted and agreed with” the move

I didn’t like losing Artemi. I thought he always brought an infectious enthusiasm to the game. He clearly has elite level skills, and I was sorry to see him go.

But it was clear after the Nashville series that the hawks weren’t going to be competitive without some major changes. As constructed in 2016-2017, they were just too soft to compete at playoff level intensity. And I thought the Saad trade was one of the types of changes they needed to make.

It turned out in 2017-2018 Saad solved nothing. They are still several gritty and tough players short of what they need
( I am not engaging at this moment in how far Toews has fallen off the table during the last two years; that created another hole that has to be filled going forward. )

Bottom line: I would have liked to hold on to 72, but changes had to be made — and still do — that will require losing some of the assets we have to improve the mix going forward.

So my choice of the word “happy” was probably wrong. It would have been more accurate to say I “accepted and agreed with” the move

I didn’t like losing Artemi. I thought he always brought an infectious enthusiasm to the game. He clearly has elite level skills, and I was sorry to see him go.

But it was clear after the Nashville series that the hawks weren’t going to be competitive without some major changes. As constructed in 2016-2017, they were just too soft to compete at playoff level intensity. And I thought the Saad trade was one of the types of changes they needed to make.

It turned out in 2017-2018 Saad solved nothing. They are still several gritty and tough players short of what they need
( I am not engaging at this moment in how far Toews has fallen off the table during the last two years; that created another hole that has to be filled going forward. )

Bottom line: I would have liked to hold on to 72, but changes had to be made — and still do — that will require losing some of the assets we have to improve the mix going forward.
- Spec41971

Panarin should've been traded for a Top Pair defenseman and nothing less.

Pull the comments from the day of the trade and I was in shock. I was absolutely flabbergasted that they traded a talent like Panarin, but happy Saad was back. I had no concrete opinion on the trade, similar to the Hjallmarsson trade. But, lucky for me, it isn't my job to construct the Chicago Blackhawks roster. Even if Brandon Saad gets back to his career 50 point average and Panarin stays at his PPG 80 point pace, it is a bad trade. You simply dont trade point per game players just bc Saad is a little bit bigger. Now if Saad had grown to a 65 point player vs 80 from Panarin, you can live with that. Until I see a 30G 35A season from Saad, I stand by my opinion that it is yet another Stan Bowman trade that diminished the talent on the roster and put them in a worse place to compete for a Cup.

Again.....82 goals created by Panarin for $6mil VS 36 goals created by Saad for $6mil....how is this even a debate???? The entire hockey world is laughing at the Hawks. NBCSN said last night before showing CBJ vs WSH highlights, "close your eyes Hawks fans". Kathryn Tappen said, "Why did the Hawks trade this guy again?" Nobody can answer that except the "mastermind" Stan Bowman.
- EnzoD

I love lil Arti and wish him the best. I miss the excitement he brought to t he Hocks. It's losing Tyler Mott I can't get over.

P.S. The competition this year across the league is incredible. Nashville ain't no shoe in.

Go lil Arti
- hocktock

It's more about the total incompetence of trading a budding superstar without any plan whatsoever to replace him. None. Zero, all the while knowing they were losing Hossa. It's also about trade after trade with little useful return time after time. Saad is a good player. He is not a great player like Panarin. Most hockey people knew that this was Panarin's third year and breaking out this year was extremely likely. This past year would really define how his career was likely to go from now on. Bowman didn't know any of this , Bowman totally failed in all aspects of this trade and most if not all the other trades. It hasn't happened and we are never going to see a nice surprise from a Bowman trade. The other gm's are way way ahead of Bowman every time. Fire Bowman now.

Pull the comments from the day of the trade and I was in shock. I was absolutely flabbergasted that they traded a talent like Panarin, but happy Saad was back. I had no concrete opinion on the trade, similar to the Hjallmarsson trade. But, lucky for me, it isn't my job to construct the Chicago Blackhawks roster. Even if Brandon Saad gets back to his career 50 point average and Panarin stays at his PPG 80 point pace, it is a bad trade. You simply dont trade point per game players just bc Saad is a little bit bigger. Now if Saad had grown to a 65 point player vs 80 from Panarin, you can live with that. Until I see a 30G 35A season from Saad, I stand by my opinion that it is yet another Stan Bowman trade that diminished the talent on the roster and put them in a worse place to compete for a Cup.

Again.....82 goals created by Panarin for $6mil VS 36 goals created by Saad for $6mil....how is this even a debate???? The entire hockey world is laughing at the Hawks. NBCSN said last night before showing CBJ vs WSH highlights, "close your eyes Hawks fans". Kathryn Tappen said, "Why did the Hawks trade this guy again?" Nobody can answer that except the "mastermind" Stan Bowman.
- EnzoD

Cmon" Enzo
Where is your credibility
Yoi have an opinion and ignore the entire picture. A blind eye. You know the reasoning behind the trade. All that needs saying is that Saad has to get back on track. Panarin either traded or leaves via free agency.

- DarthKane

"Let's wait until puck drop until assessing the team". Puck was dropped, and the results speak for themselves. Please send me the link to that blog bc I'd like to look at my other posts on that trade day.

One last comment on Panarin/Saad....

The Salary Cap is going to rise as much as $7million this year. Panarin and Saad have matching Cap Hits until Summer of 2019. By that time, the Cap might be at $85mil or more, Anisimov and/or Hossa's contracts can likely be moved to Seattle or AZ, and the Hawks would've had PLENTY of Cap Space to give a PPG player like Panarin an $8mil x 8years contract (only a $2mil raise over his already accounted for $6mil contract). Pointing to "Cost-certainty" is completely moot bc the goal was to win Cups while Keith is still top pair (which is now debatable). Trading Panarin for Saad made the Hawks a significantly worse team, and that is an objective fact. You all can rationalize it and tell yourself "cost-certainty" bc it helps ease your mind when thinking about the fact that the Hawks traded an 80 point player for a 40 point player (36 this year). It's another horrid trade, and I promise to stop complaining about all of Stan Bowman's egregious errors that have Tanked this once great team to a bottom dwelling last place Lottery Team once Stan Bowman is fired as GM. Pinky Promise.
- EnzoD

I wouldn't be too sure of that. The way Vegas went about their expansion should have people changing their views on new teams. Most of the old trends simply don't apply any longer and an expansion team, as Vegas has shown, when done right can be competitive right out of the gate.

The Chicago Blackhawks announced today that they have agreed to terms with defenseman Dennis Gilbert on a three-year contract that runs through the 2020-21 season. Gilbert will immediately join the Rockford IceHogs of the American Hockey League.

Gilbert was drafted by the Blackhawks in the third round (91st overall) of the 2015 National Hockey League Draft. The 21-year-old recently completed his junior season at the University of Notre Dame where he scored 10 points (4G, 6A) in 39 games. He recorded his first career two-goal game on Dec. 9, 2017 at Wisconsin.

The Buffalo, N.Y. native finished his three-year college career with six goals and 36 assists in 116 career college games. As a sophomore with the Fighting Irish, he helped his team to the Frozen Four and was named the Hockey East's Best Defensive Defenseman and a Hockey East Third Team All-Star. He recorded 22 assists to lead team defensemen during his sophomore campaign.

Prior to playing at Notre Dame, Gilbert played the 2014-15 season with the Chicago Steel of the USHL where he tallied 27 points (4G, 23A) in 59 games and was named to the USHL All-Rookie Team.
- breadbag

Only a 3rd team all-star. Weak.

It's more about the total incompetence of trading a budding superstar without any plan whatsoever to replace him. None. Zero, all the while knowing they were losing Hossa. It's also about trade after trade with little useful return time after time. Saad is a good player. He is not a great player like Panarin. Most hockey people knew that this was Panarin's third year and breaking out this year was extremely likely. This past year would really define how his career was likkely to go from now on. Bowman didn't know any of this , Bowman totally failed in all aspects of this trade and most if not all the other trades. It hasn't happened and we are never going to see a nice surprise from a Bowman trade. The other gm's are way way ahead of Bowman every time. Fire Bowman now.
- Savoy

There have been other explanation why the trade was made. Which i choose to believe. Of course Panarin is the better skill player. I suggest you be the GM and see how you do. Not that Bowman is without fault. But you are naive if you say Bowmanndid not have a plan

I will start by saying this is not a defense of Stan Bowman (because I can't stand the way he has structured a lot of these contracts). That said...

I think we need to look at the offseason in total instead of each individual move.

Forwards:
Panarin/Saad trade - We had lost Hossa and needed a big bodied, scoring wing that could also play top level defense. if you look at Saad's career thus far, he's that guy. Bad year? Yes, but over the long haul, I like the move as we did not have the ability to sign a quality free agent to fill this.

DeBrincat makes the big club - Admittedly, I was skeptical he would be able to do as much as he has, but he effectively replaced Panarin's GOAL SCORING at 19-20yrs old. Seeing what he's been able to do in the corners and defensively, I believe he has the potential to be as good as Panarin overall in the long run (at a slightly lower cost as I don't think he will be able to command quite as much as Panarin on his next contract).

Wingels/Bouma - I don't love or hate the moves. They are not why we were horrible this year. I loved when they were on the fourth line with Hayden because they brought a lot of pressure and stressed the other team.

D-Men:
Hjammer/Murphy trade: I get that he was a known entity, but I watched several of his games this year and Hjammer was not good. Same problems we were all complaining about last year with the poor/weak exits (especially on the backhand), he was slower and got undressed a number of times. I think Murphy was average. He looked like he played his best with Keith (oddly enough on his off side). I think AT THIS POINT IN TIME, this was a wash, with a possibility that Murphy can improve a bit.

Rutta - At the time they signed him, I though it was a plus move. through 40 games, I still thought that. After he got re-signed, for that number, I threw up in my mouth a little. I get why they signed him, good offensively and can move the puck pretty well. Defensively average. He plays the exact way the hawks want to, but doesn't seem strong enough to be good at it.

Goalies:
Darling - We simply could not afford him. I have no problem with the move. While I don't think he is nearly as bad as he was this year, he is not better than Corey. Just ask Dallas how paying $10M for goalies works out.

Forsberg - I have no issue with how this was handled. Think back to Niemi, Crow when he first came up, Raanta, Darling, we all had the exact same thought. They haven't proven anything in the NHL. Niemi parlayed one great year into several great contracts (for him). Raanta has been above average (albeit mostly as a backup). Crow is and has been a top 5 goalie for some time. Darling, great back-up, struggled (this year) as a starter. Very few could have called how these would turn out until they played in the NHL.

The point I'm making is that while you can grade trades individually, you also have to look at them in the context of what else the team is doing.

I absolutely hate the way that SB has structured contracts, and I think that signing some of these guys so that they can burn a year off their ELC is a mistake as well. Some of this really is a crapshoot.

I believe Enzo asked what has StanBow done to make you think he can right this ship? Well, he did preside over them when they were first round outs in 11 and 12 and got them back in 13. That said he also is presiding over this mess. Their problem is not identifying talent. He's signed or drafted, Panarin, Saad, DeBrincat, Schmaltz, Shaw, etc. It is the management of such assets once he has them that is maddening.

"Let's wait until puck drop until assessing the team". Puck was dropped, and the results speak for themselves. Please send me the link to that blog bc I'd like to look at my other posts on that trade day.
- EnzoD

Your comment is on page 8.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...p?thread_id=145238&page=1

The results in year one were bad, nobody is arguing that. But to imply that this was a bad from the moment it was made is incorrect. Many of us, including you and I, liked the trade when it was made.

I have no issue saying the trade was a good idea that didn't work out (at least in the first year). This is a results based industry and Stan can still be accountable for good ideas that don't pan out. But there weren't too many people at the time saying it was a bad idea.

So my choice of the word “happy” was probably wrong. It would have been more accurate to say I “accepted and agreed with” the move

I didn’t like losing Artemi. I thought he always brought an infectious enthusiasm to the game. He clearly has elite level skills, and I was sorry to see him go.

But it was clear after the Nashville series that the hawks weren’t going to be competitive without some major changes. As constructed in 2016-2017, they were just too soft to compete at playoff level intensity. And I thought the Saad trade was one of the types of changes they needed to make.

It turned out in 2017-2018 Saad solved nothing. They are still several gritty and tough players short of what they need
( I am not engaging at this moment in how far Toews has fallen off the table during the last two years; that created another hole that has to be filled going forward. )

Bottom line: I would have liked to hold on to 72, but changes had to be made — and still do — that will require losing some of the assets we have to improve the mix going forward.
- Spec41971

That's right.

One last comment on Panarin/Saad....

The Salary Cap is going to rise as much as $7million this year. Panarin and Saad have matching Cap Hits until Summer of 2019. By that time, the Cap might be at $85mil or more, Anisimov and/or Hossa's contracts can likely be moved to Seattle or AZ, and the Hawks would've had PLENTY of Cap Space to give a PPG player like Panarin an $8mil x 8years contract (only a $2mil raise over his already accounted for $6mil contract). Pointing to "Cost-certainty" is completely moot bc the goal was to win Cups while Keith is still top pair (which is now debatable). Trading Panarin for Saad made the Hawks a significantly worse team, and that is an objective fact. You all can rationalize it and tell yourself "cost-certainty" bc it helps ease your mind when thinking about the fact that the Hawks traded an 80 point player for a 40 point player (36 this year). It's another horrid trade, and I promise to stop complaining about all of Stan Bowman's egregious errors that have Tanked this once great team to a bottom dwelling last place Lottery Team once Stan Bowman is fired as GM. Pinky Promise.
- EnzoD

I totally agree that 'cost certainty' is a BS caveat to the trade. However, Panarin could be gone after next year and we'll still have Saad. We should have traded just about anyone but Kane's twin to get Saad back, we shouldn't have even lost Saad in the first place. But here we are...

Bowman has stocked the team with middling guys who don't have an elite bone in their body. Anisimov, Murphy, Ruutta, Hinostroza, Duclair, the list goes on and on of guys who haven't won squat in even their Junior or College careers. Things look pretty dire right now, but this draft should be a huge boost plus we finally have cap space for the first time in nearly a decade. It can't get much worse than this last season.

I totally agree that 'cost certainty' is a BS caveat to the trade. However, Panarin could be gone after next year and we'll still have Saad. We should have traded just about anyone but Kane's twin to get Saad back, we shouldn't have even lost Saad in the first place. But here we are...

Bowman has stocked the team with middling guys who don't have an elite bone in their body. Anisimov, Murphy, Ruutta, Hinostroza, Duclair, the list goes on and on of guys who haven't won squat in even their Junior or College careers. Things look pretty dire right now, but this draft should be a huge boost plus we finally have cap space for the first time in nearly a decade. It can't get much worse than this last season.
- ObeseOprah

Just watching the pace, physicality, skill and size of these teams the 1st two nights of the playoffs it is shocking to see how far away from Cup Contention the 17/18 Hawks were. Pray to the hockey gods they can land in the Top 3 and grab a franchise Dman in Dahlin or a truly elite big body forward like Svechnikov or Zadina to play with Toews or Kane. Next summer trade Anisimov and Hossa's cap hit and sign Doughty and Panarin

Just watching the pace, physicality, skill and size of these teams the 1st two nights of the playoffs it is shocking to see how far away from Cup Contention the 17/18 Hawks were. Pray to the hockey gods they can land in the Top 3 and grab a franchise Dman in Dahlin or a truly elite big body forward like Svechnikov or Zadina to play with Toews or Kane. Next summer trade Anisimov and Hossa's cap hit and sign Doughty and Panarin

- EnzoD

I got to see the Duck/Sharks game last night. E. Kane is the real deal. Attitude or not, he is a significant player. Hard to move off the puck, attacks the net, no hesitation, high end skill and fast. He should be welcome on any roster.

Your comment is on page 8.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...p?thread_id=145238&page=1

The results in year one were bad, nobody is arguing that. But to imply that this was a bad from the moment it was made is incorrect. Many of us, including you and I, liked the trade when it was made.

I have no issue saying the trade was a good idea that didn't work out (at least in the first year). This is a results based industry and Stan can still be accountable for good ideas that don't pan out. But there weren't too many people at the time saying it was a bad idea.
- DarthKane

Maybe we were all a bit nostalgic about Saad's championship years? Maybe we all underestimated Panarin's abilities? I still stand by my last sentence in the post, "lets wait until puck drop to assess the trade". One thing nobody can argue, Savoy was right about both the Panarin and Hjallmarsson trades from Day 1. He called it right on the money. Bravo Savoy!

I will start by saying this is not a defense of Stan Bowman (because I can't stand the way he has structured a lot of these contracts). That said...

I absolutely hate the way that SB has structured contracts, and I think that signing some of these guys so that they can burn a year off their ELC is a mistake as well. Some of this really is a crapshoot.

I believe Enzo asked what has StanBow done to make you think he can right this ship? Well, he did preside over them when they were first round outs in 11 and 12 and got them back in 13. That said he also is presiding over this mess. Their problem is not identifying talent. He's signed or drafted, Panarin, Saad, DeBrincat, Schmaltz, Shaw, etc. It is the management of such assets once he has them that is maddening.
- Chunk

Stan has shown a good ability to identify offensive talent, but his track record on defense both via draft, signing, and trade has been quite awful. The Sun Times had an article today about a Top 4 5v5 Dman being priority #1 this season, and then listed some of the infamous names that Bowman has brought to Chicago over the years....Sheldon Brookbank … David Rundblad … Kyle Cumiskey … Trevor Daley Viktor Svedberg … Michael Kostka … Adam Clendening … Klas Dahlbeck …Trevor van Riemsdyk … Tim Erixon … Christian Ehrhoff … Rob Scuderi … Michael KempnyErik Gustafsson … Gustav Forsling … Jan Rutta … Connor Murphy …

"It’s a particularly vexing problem for the Hawks. After Murphy’s disappointing transition season, Bowman still seems to have a blind spot for defensemen. And Quenneville’s defensive system seems to be problematic for almost any newcomer. It’s the Hawks’ plight in a nutshell: they’re getting older and younger when they need to get better."

https://chicago.suntimes....lackhawks-gm-stan-bowman/

I got to see the Duck/Sharks game last night. E. Kane is the real deal. Attitude or not, he is a significant player. Hard to move off the puck, attacks the net, no hesitation, high end skill and fast. He should be welcome on any roster.
- Chunk

Agreed, saw him against the Hawks a few weeks ago and he's just a hungry guy. Guy goes full tilt hounding the puck, and when he does get it he's an animal.

Reminds me of Keith on the backcheck when he's racing a guy for a puck in the corner, and Keith does that 'waterstrider' thing where in 3 quick strides he's 40 feet closer in a split second. That killer mentality is what you need to win cups. Shaw had it, Keith and Kane still have it, Hossa was the living embodiment of it.

Maybe we were all a bit nostalgic about Saad's championship years? Maybe we all underestimated Panarin's abilities? I still stand by my last sentence in the post, "lets wait until puck drop to assess the trade". One thing nobody can argue, Savoy was right about both the Panarin and Hjallmarsson trades from Day 1. He called it right on the money. Bravo Savoy!
- EnzoD

No, you said, "Saad is greater than Panarin." That's what you said. Now stop acting like you're the greatest G.M. in the world when you can comment in the rear view mirror. Please, just admit you were wrong.

So, does Stan make all the trades or does the brass do it by committee? That's what's been suggested.

Darth, I love you.

No, you said, "Saad is greater than Panarin." That's what you said. Now stop acting like you're the greatest G.M. in the world when you can comment in the rear view mirror. Please, just admit you were wrong.

So, does Stan make all the trades or does the brass do it by committee? That's what's been suggested.

Darth, I love you.
- hocktock

I was wrong. Very wrong. Very very very wrong as Saad scored 36 points and Panarin scored 82 and single-handedly he and Seth Jones beat Washington in their playoff game.

#MAGA

#MAGA
- EnzoD

I'm with her.