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Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: It Takes 250 Games
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BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Mar 20 @ 1:51 PM ET
Poll: At what cap hit would remove Toews as #1 whipping boy since the 2015 cup.
And who would replace him? (comment replacements below)

http://www.easypolls.net/...=5ab14671e4b00828d86bdfee

- Slofire94


$8 million is probably an understandable cap hit if you anticipated him hovering around 70 points. Would be easier to swallow and probably about what he'd get on the open market today.

He still wouldn't be meeting that salary, but it'd be understandable.
TrueGrit
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: FL
Joined: 07.19.2011

Mar 20 @ 2:01 PM ET
That "Use" tax will kill you down there
- riozzo


Are you guys really rationalizing Florida Taxes?

There is no comparison. What is Sales tax in Illinios? Cook County?

There are no hidden taxes in florida, tourists pay taxes via gas and tolls. Still a huge net savings vs any of the Northern Peoples State's.

It is not only weather, but taxes that make Florida a desireable place for athletes.

EdmHockeyMan
Referee
Location: Lumbridge, AB
Joined: 06.24.2013

Mar 20 @ 2:17 PM ET
Are you guys really rationalizing Florida Taxes?

There is no comparison. What is Sales tax in Illinios? Cook County?

There are no hidden taxes in florida, tourists pay taxes via gas and tolls. Still a huge net savings vs any of the Northern Peoples State's.

It is not only weather, but taxes that make Florida a desireable place for athletes.

- TrueGrit


Unless those athletes have kids........
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Mar 20 @ 2:57 PM ET
Watching the best player in the NHL this season, Nathan Mackinnon, should be fun.
breadbag
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 11.30.2015

Mar 20 @ 2:57 PM ET
Neither of those guys are NHL players.

And didn't Toews spend most of this year with Saad? Wasn't that the whole point?

- BINGO!


Did you read my whole comment? He spent a lot of this year with Saad, true but also had the wonderful Panik on the other wing. In the last 2-3 years they have swapped his wingers with various spare parts to varying degrees of success. It is very similar.

Besides, Staal's last year in Carolina he played a lot more with Jordan Staal, Elias Lindholm, Jiri Tlusty, Alexander Semin than he did with Gerbe or Terry. He spent just as much time with Skinner as he did with those 2.
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Mar 20 @ 3:01 PM ET
Did you read my whole comment? He spent a lot of this year with Saad, true but also had the wonderful Panik on the other wing. In the last 2-3 years they have swapped his wingers with various spare parts to varying degrees of success. It is very similar.

Besides, Staal's last year in Carolina he played a lot more with Jordan Staal, Elias Lindholm, Jiri Tlusty, Alexander Semin than he did with Gerbe or Terry. He spent just as much time with Skinner as he did with those 2.

- breadbag


Alex Semin was bought out before E.Staal's final season. Jiri Tlusty was traded to Winnipeg.

And yes, Lindholm played on his right side for a good chunk of that final season. But not Skinner, no.
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Mar 20 @ 3:11 PM ET
Are you guys really rationalizing Florida Taxes?

There is no comparison. What is Sales tax in Illinios? Cook County?

There are no hidden taxes in florida, tourists pay taxes via gas and tolls. Still a huge net savings vs any of the Northern Peoples State's.

It is not only weather, but taxes that make Florida a desireable place for athletes.

- TrueGrit


Other than the three NBA mercenaries who "took their talents to South Beach", which difference-making free agents have signed with Florida teams since 2000?

You can probably come up with more than I can, but I doubt that it's a major rush to the sun.

The state has had 6 world champions since 2000 - Lightening once, Marlins, Bucs, three for the Heat - pretty good for only 6 teams in the state.

But high-tax California has had more - 13, I think - yes with more teams.

High-tax Illinois has had 5 - and with only 5 teams in the state.

Lots of reasons players choose to go places - certainly money is one - but with the state compacts smoothing out the state taxes to a certain extent - I don't think state tax burdens are one of the top reasons to sign.
breadbag
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 11.30.2015

Mar 20 @ 3:15 PM ET
There are 10.5 million reasons why this is a BS excuse for Toews mediocre (at best) play over the last 3 seasons.
- EnzoD


Except who you play with does matter. Toews can play better. Sure, but who you play with matters a lot.

Same thing with Kane if you want to look at it objectively. His play hasn't been so hot when it isn't Panarin or Schmaltz (or his recent Saad/Toews) with him on a line. Considering he gets deployed in the favorable match-ups, is the guy who gets the touches on the PP from the half boards for what like 3.5 minutes a game.

Everyone jumps all over Toews because they seem to expect him to be a point per game player like Kane, while also being one of the top defensive C in the NHL. At some point you have to check your expectations. Toews has been below his average lately. Okay, but how many effective wingers has he had? When he has 1 or 2 decent guys riding on his wing, he scores pretty much like usual.

Guys like Panik/Saad didn't play well. They moved to different lines plenty and failed to do anything, it wasn't like Toews was dragging them down.

Both guys, Toews/Kane got their big payday based on their playoff heroics, but neither guy should have gotten more than 8.5. Toews never had the offensive production for it and Kane doesn't play in all situations. That doesn't change their current salary or situation.
ObeseOprah
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 01.17.2014

Mar 20 @ 3:17 PM ET
Why are you guys whining about Florida and Carolina on a Hawks message board?

Stay on topic, you look like Barret Jackman
breadbag
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 11.30.2015

Mar 20 @ 3:27 PM ET
Alex Semin was bought out before E.Staal's final season. Jiri Tlusty was traded to Winnipeg.

And yes, Lindholm played on his right side for a good chunk of that final season. But not Skinner, no.

- BINGO!


Sorry, I looked at the wrong season, my mistake. So his top line-mates were

Kris Versteeg
Elias Lindholm
Victor Rask
Phillip Di Giuseppe

he only played 38 minutes 5v5 with Terry and only 12 with Gerbe. Their situations weren't that different IMO. Toews has had some mix and match lines and some guys on his wing who don't belong in the NHL or at least not in a top 6. How many of the guys here are legit top 6 wingers? Panik, Hartman, Shaw, Garbutt, Tikhonov, Motte, Rasmussen, Desjardins, Fleischmann, Dano, Bickell, Sekac. Each one spent at least a game if not several on his wing in the last couple years. TT was there, but had not exactly found his game yet.
RaleighHawk
Joined: 03.29.2016

Mar 20 @ 3:46 PM ET
So if you knew 100% that the current roster, or at least keeping the core players, would not result in any legitimate Cup chances, would you completely blow it up and start over by getting as much as possible now for Kane, Keith, and Crawford (if healthy)? These players would bring back the greatest returns.

It seems as if a lot of fans would say yes, but management would never go for it, because it would assure that attendance would drop dramatically for at lest 2+ years.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Mar 20 @ 3:58 PM ET
Except who you play with does matter. Toews can play better. Sure, but who you play with matters a lot.

Same thing with Kane if you want to look at it objectively. His play hasn't been so hot when it isn't Panarin or Schmaltz (or his recent Saad/Toews) with him on a line. Considering he gets deployed in the favorable match-ups, is the guy who gets the touches on the PP from the half boards for what like 3.5 minutes a game.

Everyone jumps all over Toews because they seem to expect him to be a point per game player like Kane, while also being one of the top defensive C in the NHL. At some point you have to check your expectations. Toews has been below his average lately. Okay, but how many effective wingers has he had? When he has 1 or 2 decent guys riding on his wing, he scores pretty much like usual.

Guys like Panik/Saad didn't play well. They moved to different lines plenty and failed to do anything, it wasn't like Toews was dragging them down.

Both guys, Toews/Kane got their big payday based on their playoff heroics, but neither guy should have gotten more than 8.5. Toews never had the offensive production for it and Kane doesn't play in all situations. That doesn't change their current salary or situation.

- breadbag


I agree that they should have gotten 8 years by $8million each. I cannot speak the expectations of others, but me personally, it's less about the points and more about the shift-to-shift impact. Making plays with the puck to find teammates in good scoring chances, beating defenders 1v1, taking the puck with speed and power to the net, completing passes tape to tape, being strong with puck protection down low and along the boards. His eye test, IMO, is actually far worse than his recently improving season stat line suggests. I expect a difference maker most shifts from 19 (like you see with 88). Can you honestly say that he has been a huge positive impact player for the Hawks on a shift-to-shift basis? How many giveaways, how many errant passes, how many mishandles of the puck? All the guy can do with the puck on his stick now is skate to the hashmarks on the boards, pull up, and dish it to the point. The problems with this team now, and moving forward, lie squarely on the shoulders of 7, 19 + 20 IMO. If there is not SIGNIFICANT improvement in the play of all 3 of those guys, they will never be more than a Playoff Bubble team the next 5+ years.


EDIT: The main point is that due to the $10.5million matching cap hits from 19+88, there are going to be league minimum contracts in the lineup moving forward. When you make more than Crosby and Malkin, you are expected to similarly carry lower-talent players. Toews has been unable to do so, and here we are at last place in the Division. Still, as mediocre as Toews and Saad have played, the defense play and goalies behind Crow are the #1 and #2 reasons for the current state of the Hawks.

#FIRESTANBOWMAN
Hawkster
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Quebec , QC
Joined: 06.13.2008

Mar 20 @ 4:05 PM ET
Except who you play with does matter. Toews can play better. Sure, but who you play with matters a lot.

Same thing with Kane if you want to look at it objectively. His play hasn't been so hot when it isn't Panarin or Schmaltz (or his recent Saad/Toews) with him on a line. Considering he gets deployed in the favorable match-ups, is the guy who gets the touches on the PP from the half boards for what like 3.5 minutes a game.

Everyone jumps all over Toews because they seem to expect him to be a point per game player like Kane, while also being one of the top defensive C in the NHL. At some point you have to check your expectations. Toews has been below his average lately. Okay, but how many effective wingers has he had? When he has 1 or 2 decent guys riding on his wing, he scores pretty much like usual.

Guys like Panik/Saad didn't play well. They moved to different lines plenty and failed to do anything, it wasn't like Toews was dragging them down.

Both guys, Toews/Kane got their big payday based on their playoff heroics, but neither guy should have gotten more than 8.5. Toews never had the offensive production for it and Kane doesn't play in all situations. That doesn't change their current salary or situation.

- breadbag



Exactly.

Bottom line is the FO now has to make the team competitive again.

Having a few large contracts on the books to players who have taken a big decline and are no longer worthy of that top salary is a really big issue. I know the decline happened a lot faster than expected and the cap did not rise so not 100% the FO fault but I would say they bear a large part of the responsibility.

I speak of Toews and Seabs mostly as even though Keith has lost a step but his hit is minimal and Kane to me is still a difference maker on most nights so they both get a pass. On the other hand Seabs and Toews have not been a difference maker in quite some time. Saad has played poorly and so have other players which has not helped but they dont make top 5 salary in the league.

How does this get fixed without moving one or both of those contracts I'm not sure but it's a a very big part of the equation if the team wants to move forward. Neither Seabs nor Toews will likely improve, actually will probably get worse if anything and that spells bad news to anybody who has watched the team this year.

I believe a coaching change is also needed as I've said before the team looks uninspired on many nights and that so called Toews and Q leadesrhip seems to have gone on deaf ears. New blood is definetely needed. Too bad as Q is an elite coach but all coaches at one point or another get replaced and I think his time has come.

Lots to changes needed if they dont want to be irrelevent for another 5 years.

Will be an interesting off season for sure.














Hawkster
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Quebec , QC
Joined: 06.13.2008

Mar 20 @ 4:07 PM ET
I agree that they should have gotten 8 years by $8million each. I cannot speak the expectations of others, but me personally, it's less about the points and more about the shift-to-shift impact. Making plays with the puck to find teammates in good scoring chances, beating defenders 1v1, taking the puck with speed and power to the net, completing passes tape to tape, being strong with puck protection down low and along the boards. His eye test, IMO, is actually far worse than his recently improving season stat line suggests. I expect a difference maker most shifts from 19 (like you see with 88). Can you honestly say that he has been a huge positive impact player for the Hawks on a shift-to-shift basis? How many giveaways, how many errant passes, how many mishandles of the puck? All the guy can do with the puck on his stick now is skate to the hashmarks on the boards, pull up, and dish it to the point. The problems with this team now, and moving forward, lie squarely on the shoulders of 7, 19 + 20 IMO. If there is not SIGNIFICANT improvement in the play of all 3 of those guys, they will never be more than a Playoff Bubble team the next 5+ years.
- EnzoD


lol....we must be on the same wavelenght....just saw the post.
ObeseOprah
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 01.17.2014

Mar 20 @ 4:16 PM ET
I agree that they should have gotten 8 years by $8million each. I cannot speak the expectations of others, but me personally, it's less about the points and more about the shift-to-shift impact. Making plays with the puck to find teammates in good scoring chances, beating defenders 1v1, taking the puck with speed and power to the net, completing passes tape to tape, being strong with puck protection down low and along the boards. His eye test, IMO, is actually far worse than his recently improving season stat line suggests. I expect a difference maker most shifts from 19 (like you see with 88). Can you honestly say that he has been a huge positive impact player for the Hawks on a shift-to-shift basis? How many giveaways, how many errant passes, how many mishandles of the puck? All the guy can do with the puck on his stick now is skate to the hashmarks on the boards, pull up, and dish it to the point. The problems with this team now, and moving forward, lie squarely on the shoulders of 7, 19 + 20 IMO. If there is not SIGNIFICANT improvement in the play of all 3 of those guys, they will never be more than a Playoff Bubble team the next 5+ years.
- EnzoD


Respectfully disagree with the 5+ years projection. The Bruins looked like they were in dire straights two years ago, another disappointing season with an aging core (Berg passing 30, Chara nearing 40 with injuries, McQuaid+Seidenberg looking like shells of themselves). They restocked by ditching what was considered key guys in Lucic, Hamilton, and a handful of other moves. They rebuilt through the draft. Now they're a top team in the league right now with a fully stocked pipeline.

The Hawks pipeline is not as bad as it was last year, but it's still easily one of the worst in the league's. Things could turn around after next season, and might happen rather quickly.
We need many more pieces than just Jokiharju, Sikura, Mitchell, and the mid-rounders of the last 3 years.

This year's draft and possibly even free agency can help. But the Hawks need to consider offloading even more talent to acquire younger and higher-end prospects. Most of our prospects outside of the three I mentioned are not guaranteed NHLers. We have a top ten pick and a likely 29/30 pick from Nashville. Those two could yield a promising player and a very hopeful player.

Maybe they can offload some of Duclair, Jurco, Ruuta, Murphy, Oesterle, Anisimov, or someone else for more picks or prospects. Duclair likely still has name value, teams have likely noticed Oesterle's ability to get pucks through, and Anisimov is a valuable big body for a contending team.

There's likely more pain next season if Kane/Keith/Crawford get hurt. If I were Stan I'd take this offseason to sign any UFA who will have value at the next trade deadline, and try to flip those for as many picks/prospects as possible.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Mar 20 @ 4:31 PM ET
Respectfully disagree with the 5+ years projection. The Bruins looked like they were in dire straights two years ago, another disappointing season with an aging core (Berg passing 30, Chara nearing 40 with injuries, McQuaid+Seidenberg looking like shells of themselves). They restocked by ditching what was considered key guys in Lucic, Hamilton, and a handful of other moves. They rebuilt through the draft. Now they're a top team in the league right now with a fully stocked pipeline.

The Hawks pipeline is not as bad as it was last year, but it's still easily one of the worst in the league's. Things could turn around after next season, and might happen rather quickly.
We need many more pieces than just Jokiharju, Sikura, Mitchell, and the mid-rounders of the last 3 years.

This year's draft and possibly even free agency can help. But the Hawks need to consider offloading even more talent to acquire younger and higher-end prospects. Most of our prospects outside of the three I mentioned are not guaranteed NHLers. We have a top ten pick and a likely 29/30 pick from Nashville. Those two could yield a promising player and a very hopeful player.

Maybe they can offload some of Duclair, Jurco, Ruuta, Murphy, Oesterle, Anisimov, or someone else for more picks or prospects. Duclair likely still has name value, teams have likely noticed Oesterle's ability to get pucks through, and Anisimov is a valuable big body for a contending team.

There's likely more pain next season if Kane/Keith/Crawford get hurt. If I were Stan I'd take this offseason to sign any UFA who will have value at the next trade deadline, and try to flip those for as many picks/prospects as possible.

- ObeseOprah


It's always tough to compare organizational progress. I'd agree that Boston is a good comparable, and I'd first point to their organizational changes to prompt the drastic turnaround....FIRING THE GM and COACH!!! Their new GM has done an unbelievable job of drafting and developing NHL ready players since taking over a few years ago. Fire Bowman and Q, get a former NHL player as GM who has a better natural eye for assessing NHL players (especially on Defense), and hire a coach that is more suited for a young/developing team.
riozzo
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Cornwallis Island
Joined: 06.17.2014

Mar 20 @ 4:36 PM ET
Why are you guys whining about Florida and Carolina on a Hawks message board?

Stay on topic, you look like Barret Jackman

- ObeseOprah


Because we can?

What topic, 800 iterations of hawks lines that will fail?, Fire Q?, Fire StanBo? Sikura Signing with Pitt? Yes, we have not berated those to death...
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Mar 20 @ 5:00 PM ET
Sorry, I looked at the wrong season, my mistake. So his top line-mates were

Kris Versteeg
Elias Lindholm
Victor Rask
Phillip Di Giuseppe

he only played 38 minutes 5v5 with Terry and only 12 with Gerbe. Their situations weren't that different IMO. Toews has had some mix and match lines and some guys on his wing who don't belong in the NHL or at least not in a top 6. How many of the guys here are legit top 6 wingers? Panik, Hartman, Shaw, Garbutt, Tikhonov, Motte, Rasmussen, Desjardins, Fleischmann, Dano, Bickell, Sekac. Each one spent at least a game if not several on his wing in the last couple years. TT was there, but had not exactly found his game yet.

- breadbag


Thank god he's found it now.

58 points with 10 games left in the year boys. Turbo's hitting the 60 mark.

...which is higher than I thought his ceiling was.
riozzo
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Cornwallis Island
Joined: 06.17.2014

Mar 20 @ 5:13 PM ET
Thank god he's found it now.

58 points with 10 games left in the year boys. Turbo's hitting the 60 mark.

...which is higher than I thought his ceiling was.

- BINGO!

And its not even a contract year
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Mar 20 @ 5:21 PM ET
And its not even a contract year
- riozzo


He worked with a body-builder in Finland this offseason, apparently. He's definitely looked a lot strong on the puck. Cut his number of turnovers in half from last year while bumping up his Even strength production a lot.

He and Aho have been fun to watch, which is nice because literally nothing else having to do with the Hurricanes has been.
bogiedoc
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: VA
Joined: 09.27.2011

Mar 20 @ 6:10 PM ET
Poll: At what cap hit would remove Toews as #1 whipping boy since the 2015 cup.
And who would replace him? (comment replacements below)

http://www.easypolls.net/...=5ab14671e4b00828d86bdfee

- Slofire94


i might vote 10.5 million times...
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Mar 20 @ 6:43 PM ET
https://www.secondcityhoc...world-hockey-championship

"Custance adds that Kane may not be the only Blackhawks player willing to suit up for Team USA after the season with the likes of forwards DeBrincat, Vinnie Hinostroza, Brandon Saad and Nick Schmaltz and defenseman Connor Murphy also listed."

I'd rather Kane not play at this tournament. Everyone else, sure.
kwolf68
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Mt. Lebanon, PA
Joined: 12.18.2010

Mar 20 @ 6:57 PM ET

Sure most know, but Andreas Martinsen called up...huge news.
35Tony0
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Springfield, IL
Joined: 05.10.2015

Mar 20 @ 7:11 PM ET
https://www.secondcityhoc...world-hockey-championship

"Custance adds that Kane may not be the only Blackhawks player willing to suit up for Team USA after the season with the likes of forwards DeBrincat, Vinnie Hinostroza, Brandon Saad and Nick Schmaltz and defenseman Connor Murphy also listed."

I'd rather Kane not play at this tournament. Everyone else, sure.

- EnzoD

"Ya gotta let them boys boogie-woogie," sang some famous bluesman.
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Mar 20 @ 7:18 PM ET
He worked with a body-builder in Finland this offseason, apparently. He's definitely looked a lot strong on the puck. Cut his number of turnovers in half from last year while bumping up his Even strength production a lot.

He and Aho have been fun to watch, which is nice because literally nothing else having to do with the Hurricanes has been.

- BINGO!


He’s still only 23 - one of those skaters who takes longer to develop, physically and in his mental approach to the game AND TRAINING (he apparently didn’t take off-season development as seriously as the Hawk brass would have liked).

I wish the Hawks could have given him more time....
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