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Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: It Takes 250 Games
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breadbag
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 11.30.2015

Mar 21 @ 3:54 PM ET
Some of the most effective defense I've seen... is keeping the puck in your own teams possession... something Panarin (and Kane) do really well.
- Slofire94


I think part of the problem is that it is high risk play. Panarin (and Kane) when here was likely to score 5v5 but was nearly as likely to get scored on and that was with a really high % of the offensive zone draws to keep them from having to defend. Obviously, it is a 5 man unit on the ice, and to me, the biggest issue was AA. The Hawks should have dumped him after 2015-16 when he value was at a peak. Now they are stuck with him.
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Mar 21 @ 3:56 PM ET
It Takes 250 games, Justin quiped

Well i have an alternate storyline, different player, two teams reportedly involved.

Some research can bear out your finding if you care to cross check...... but i have to wonder how many games and will he get traded after one season as compared to the situation with this one player skating with our not really all prime time players at The United Center

Yes yes it is Dylan Sikura. So do you realize the situation where he would try to be another scorer is not exactly real sensible for him to jump into.

The Penguins have some stars, some secondary players and a cache of revolving role players they steadily are fed ftom their AHL affiliate. Here are names of players who are described as the scorers, primary and secondary plus then line three is others who are more checkers:

Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, Kessell
Brassard, Hornqvist, Hagelin
Sheary, Rust, Sheahan

Where does the rosy cheek college boy fit in? With salary cap going up but also a new CBA where does the erstwhile drafted Blackhawk fit?

He doesn't, you claim. Sure, i counter, the Penguins could cut someone, somehow.....but how many roles and how many players to fill those roles. Unless Sikura expects to be a checker.

Dollar wise and cap wise Oleksiak has fit like a comfortable glove so there are at least four defensemen that you have to pay.

Does Sikura fit in Pittsburgh?
GPHawksfan
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: AB
Joined: 01.26.2018

Mar 21 @ 3:57 PM ET
good god, I hate everyone here...

I know its been a bad season, but jesus H with the belly aching and crying about Stan and Saad.

Then there's 2 pages full of knob slobbin Panarin.

Enough already.
Just start a fight. It's more fun than reading this crybaby poop.
Also, i'll be back tomorrow to check for any Hawks news updates like usual, even if you guys annoy me.

- BlazinMike

GPHawksfan
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: AB
Joined: 01.26.2018

Mar 21 @ 3:58 PM ET
Saad 31 points minus 8 Richard Panik 26 points plus 4. About the same now what?
- Savoy

Are you arguing with yourself?
hocktock
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Over by dere.
Joined: 07.15.2015

Mar 21 @ 4:03 PM ET
good god, I hate everyone here...

I know its been a bad season, but jesus H with the belly aching and crying about Stan and Saad.

Then there's 2 pages full of knob slobbin Panarin.

Enough already.

Also, i'll be back tomorrow to check for any Hawks news updates like usual, even if you guys annoy me.

- BlazinMike


Finnally, a quote I can agree with.

Go Hocks
-Doh-
Location: VA
Joined: 10.05.2015

Mar 21 @ 4:08 PM ET
Not 31 points, I figured he'd wind up with around 50, but it was a bad trade at the time and, well, still is.

Got drummed out of here for saying so at that point, though.

- BINGO!


I agree. shooters/snipers/scorers are incredibly hard to find and you need to hold on to them. Guys that have a shoot first mentality, have accurate shots, shoot from all angles, elevate the puck, can find open spaces in the offensive zone where teammates know they will be an look for them. The Hawks have Kane and DeBrincat. I consider Sharp in that stereotype though he is past his prime (though not as bad as some people think).

How many would you say Carolina has? Are the generational, elite, all star, or just really good.
TheTrob
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Oak Park, IL
Joined: 04.14.2010

Mar 21 @ 4:09 PM ET
Panarin plus 17 with 68 points while Sadd minus 8 with 31 points. My how very fricking inconvenient for Saad over Panarin blinders on believers. Now who doesn't play defense?
- Savoy


It's not all about points and the value of +/- as a stat can be argued forever.

Now, if hypothetically I can take my choice of Saad or Panarin at their current salary going forward for the next 4 years who do I take.......Panarin, but that isn't the case, and Panarin's payday would have made him a prohibitive signing for the Hawks with the possibility of no return. In addition, Saad didn't all of a sudden become a bad player. He has had a down year, poor puck luck, etc. He is still young and un-injured and no reason to believe that he can't bounce back. As a complete player, I think Saad is better, though only slightly.

Panarin is an elite offensive player and at his best an indifferent/average defensive player. Remind you of anyone else in the league? There is a guy, with 600+ goals, Ross, Richard, Hart, Lindsey and Calder trophies and exactly ZERO stanley cups. Heck, his teams have never gotten past the 2nd round of the playoffs.

You win championships with certain types of players. It's about more than just points and stats.
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Mar 21 @ 4:18 PM ET
I agree. shooters/snipers/scorers are incredibly hard to find and you need to hold on to them. Guys that have a shoot first mentality, have accurate shots, shoot from all angles, elevate the puck, can find open spaces in the offensive zone where teammates know they will be an look for them. The Hawks have Kane and DeBrincat. I consider Sharp in that stereotype though he is past his prime (though not as bad as some people think).

How many would you say Carolina has? Are the generational, elite, all star, or just really good.

- -Doh-


Hard to say. Aho is All-star level, but has Elite potential. Skinner is there as well when the coach isn't trying to grind him into the dust.

Beyond that it's pretty bare.
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Mar 21 @ 4:27 PM ET
Hard to say. Aho is All-star level, but has Elite potential. Skinner is there as well when the coach isn't trying to grind him into the dust.

Beyond that it's pretty bare.

- BINGO!

TT

Or tt.

22 goals this season

Add: what fo you mean "grind him into the dust."
He has had concussion(s) i know. Is he playing too physical given his scoring prowess or shot? Playing a ton TOI?
fattybeef
Joined: 05.04.2010

Mar 21 @ 4:27 PM ET
Well said Beef! We are typically on the same page in assessing player performance, but I must disagree with you on Connor Murphy. I see a guy that is Seabrook slow, but only 23 years old. His foot speed/quickness is AWFUL and puts him into very difficult situations defending off the rush or with quick puck movement in the cycle game. I think he is a 6D on a true NHL contender due to his skating.....
- EnzoD


Yea weird. I think Murphy has all the physical tools both skating and size wise. Especially when you consider his size.

Good bad or otherwise he's def a head of most of the other bozos on the blue line right now so I dunno. I think for the size and the money/term they could do worse and for sure have with the Rutta and Gus extensions.

tomato tomato
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Mar 21 @ 4:32 PM ET
TT

Or tt.

22 goals this season

- jhawk59


TT's a good player but I don't know that he's really a top-end shooter. Has a hell of a nice pass, though. Real good at entering the zone with control and hitting guys with passes around the net.
fattybeef
Joined: 05.04.2010

Mar 21 @ 4:43 PM ET
Panarin is an impact player at 5v5 as much as he is a threat on the PowerPlay. I liked (past tense) Brandon Saad as a player, but you hit the nail on the head...he is a complementary player, not an ELITE Quality player like Panarin. Would you rather have Saad for $6mil and 30ish points, or Panarin for $8mil and 70+ points?? You need to score goals to win hockey games, and Panarin creates 2x the goals that Saad does. How about that all world defense from Saad last night when he watches Mackinnon put a pass through his skates for a wide open goal??
- EnzoD


Mehhh, Panarin signs for +9 million.

A lot of teams can throw money at him. And with his deal up after next year there will be a line. Plus hell be looking for a sweet deal with dollars and term since hell be 27 by then. As long as he doesn't fall off a cliff someone will pay him a big pile of money.
fattybeef
Joined: 05.04.2010

Mar 21 @ 4:50 PM ET
Panarin plus 17 with 68 points while Sadd minus 8 with 31 points. My how very fricking inconvenient for Saad over Panarin blinders on believers. Now who doesn't play defense?
- Savoy


Plus minus is a pretty arbitrary stat. Saad has had a pretty dreadful year by his standards but I feel like he bounces back next year.

The year in general has been an aberration for a lot of players. Fact of the matter is if they come off the Hossa deal they will have about 20 million in cap space and if they can come off AA with out taking anything back then a whole lot more.

Plus, if they win a lottery pick they get young cost controlled player who can contribute now and they can buy whatever FA or two they want and be right back in the mix.
ObeseOprah
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 01.17.2014

Mar 21 @ 5:00 PM ET
Plus minus is a pretty arbitrary stat. Saad has had a pretty dreadful year by his standards but I feel like he bounces back next year.

The year in general has been an aberration for a lot of players. Fact of the matter is if they come off the Hossa deal they will have about 20 million in cap space and if they can come off AA with out taking anything back then a whole lot more.

Plus, if they win a lottery pick they get young cost controlled player who can contribute now and they can buy whatever FA or two they want and be right back in the mix.

- fattybeef

Agreed. The big question for next year is Crawford. If he’s back for 50+ games we’re a playoff team. It would help having more dmen above replacement level.
vandymeer23
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IA
Joined: 10.11.2014

Mar 21 @ 5:23 PM ET
NICE !!! Hossa for GM, Chelios for HC.......then the wussyfootin NO CHECK Blackhawks would have some toughness....... can Jocylyn Lemieux come out of retirement and Grimson and Peluso play 4th line with Hayden.

Yeah the CUPS were fantastic but until I see a semblance of that kind of talent again, it would be great to see a team that sticks up for each other and plays with a lot of edge. But again........ it starts with toughness UP TOP !! We'll see what they got this summer.

- Hawkytalk

agreed
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Mar 21 @ 5:27 PM ET
Mehhh, Panarin signs for +9 million.

A lot of teams can throw money at him. And with his deal up after next year there will be a line. Plus hell be looking for a sweet deal with dollars and term since hell be 27 by then. As long as he doesn't fall off a cliff someone will pay him a big pile of money.

- fattybeef


You think Panarin will get more than Stamkos ($8mil)? Either way, it's very hard to argue against the results and trending of the team moving forward with Stan Bowman's fingerprints all over it.
Slofire94
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: CA
Joined: 01.17.2016

Mar 21 @ 5:29 PM ET
You think Panarin will get more than Stamkos ($8mil)? Either way, it's very hard to argue against the results and trending of the team moving forward with Stan Bowman's fingerprints all over it.
- EnzoD


I bet he gets 7.5M x 7-8 years
Like his buddy, Vladdy Tarasenko
SaskHawkFan
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: SK
Joined: 05.18.2014

Mar 21 @ 5:38 PM ET
Panarin plus 17 with 68 points while Sadd minus 8 with 31 points. My how very fricking inconvenient for Saad over Panarin blinders on believers. Now who doesn't play defense?
- Savoy


Im going to reserve judgement on this trade till after the playoffs. Lets see what your boy does in the real season.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Mar 21 @ 5:47 PM ET
Im going to reserve judgement on this trade till after the playoffs. Lets see what your boy does in the real season.
- SaskHawkFan


Blue Jackets wouldn't even be sniffing the postseason this year without Panarin...Foligno, Jenner, Atkinson, and Wennberg all under 40 points on the season. The ONLY other player on the team above 40 points is Norris Trophy Candidate Seth Jones with 49 points. Panarin has 31 more points than the 2nd highest scoring forward (rookie Dubois who has played on Artemi's line for a while). People are entitled to have their own opinions on Saad and Panarin as players, but the numbers simply don't add up to rationalize this trade as anything other than a HUGE LOSS for the Hawks. Stan made sure to get Columbus' 3rd string goalie in the trade....
glennjpawlak22
Joined: 11.26.2013

Mar 21 @ 5:55 PM ET
Blue Jackets wouldn't even be sniffing the postseason this year without Panarin...Foligno, Jenner, Atkinson, and Wennberg all under 40 points on the season. The ONLY other player on the team above 40 points is Norris Trophy Candidate Seth Jones with 49 points. Panarin has 31 more points than the 2nd highest scoring forward (rookie Dubois who has played on Artemi's line for a while). People are entitled to have their own opinions on Saad and Panarin as players, but the numbers simply don't add up to rationalize this trade as anything other than a HUGE LOSS for the Hawks. Stan made sure to get Columbus' 3rd string goalie in the trade....
- EnzoD


3rd String AHL Goalie!!!!
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

Mar 21 @ 6:02 PM ET


BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Mar 21 @ 6:28 PM ET
Im going to reserve judgement on this trade till after the playoffs. Lets see what your boy does in the real season.
- SaskHawkFan


Considering Saad won't be making them, I'm not sure what you're hoping to compare Panarin's performance to.
Slofire94
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: CA
Joined: 01.17.2016

Mar 21 @ 6:35 PM ET
Considering Saad won't be making them, I'm not sure what you're hoping to compare Panarin's performance to.
- BINGO!


"Intangibles"
wonthecup10
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 02.05.2008

Mar 21 @ 6:35 PM ET
People want to be nostalgic about the Cup Wins. Saad was another guy who had his play inflated by being on a line with Marian Hossa or Patrick Kane, exclusively. Artemi Panarin playing with a rookie center and a cycle of wingers who are far less talented than Kane or Hossa, has been a part of 70+ goals scored for CBJ. What is laughable about Bowman is that he claims to want to make the team "tougher" to play against last summer. Trades for Saad, trades for Murphy, signs Bouma and Wingels and plays Hayden early in the year. Fast forward to now and Bouma/Wingels are gone, the Hawks only physical player with skill (Hartman) is traded to a division rival, Hayden is just now called back up, and Saad/Murphy both suck. It would have been more beneficial to dump Hjallmarsson for a 2nd round pick. Now the Hawks are stuck with another overpaid 3rd pair defenseman in Connor Murphy. Stan Bowman has done a great job of assembling 3rd pair/AHL quality defenseman in high numbers....Seabrook, Murphy, Oesterle, Rutta, Gustafson, and Kempny are all NOT Top 4 quality this year. Bowman has GOT TO GO!
- EnzoD


Enzo, what fans should do that are fed up and agree with you on Stan Bowman, they have a table down in the main concourse for kids can go make signs, there are some adults even there making signs also, should get a bunch of guys to go make up about 10 fire Stan Bowman signs and hold them up throughout the last game of the season against St. Louis .I was at the game last night and I bet there was probably 6000 empty seats, I would bet it will be no more than half an arena Thursday night.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Mar 21 @ 6:42 PM ET
Enzo, what fans should do that are fed up and agree with you on Stan Bowman, they have a table down in the main concourse for kids can go make signs, there are some adults even there making signs also, should get a bunch of guys to go make up about 10 fire Stan Bowman signs and hold them up throughout the last game of the season against St. Louis .I was at the game last night and I bet there was probably 6000 empty seats, I would bet it will be no more than half an arena Thursday night.
- wonthecup10


The game was 3-1 with 4 minutes left and you could see on the TV broadcast that 75% of the 100 level fans had already left for the exits.....sad!
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