Lol yeah exactly, basically no 2nd pair whatsoever and half a first pair with Keith and ????? No consistent top line scoring with Toews-Saad and a rotation of RWs. Corey Crawford is probably one more head shot from his career over (if not already past that point...).

Is Anton Forsberg the answer? Can Jokijarju and Forsling be a top pairing? Does this big Swede Center have an NHL impact next year?

WAY too many roster holes, overpaid veterans, and role playing youngsters playing higher in the lineup than they should. IMO, Non-playoff team again next year, barring major changes to personnel.
- EnzoD

There just aren't enough veterans in their primes! Kane. They have Kane. Everyone else has some level of uncertainty associated with them. Will the aging veterans bounce back any? Will the young guys take another step forward? Will the injury prone stay healthy? Will any prospects be able to make the jump to the NHL? But even if they all perform next year in a best case scenario, the roster will still need a significant upgrade for the team to make a run next year.

Saad, Panik, and even Toews hasn't looked the part without 81 lighting a fire under them. If we can trade 19 for a bag of pucks and 5mil/yr retained, should do it.
- busmaster

Saad Toews Cat
Schmaltz AA Kane
Vinny Kampf Duclair
Hayden Wingels Sikura

Forward wise doesn't look too bad for next year, the kiddies got a chance to play in the men's league and will/should be better for it. Fwiw Gusto has actually been playing better in the past 2 weeks? Can he take the next step, boy i hope so.

Saad Toews Cat
Schmaltz AA Kane
Vinny Kampf Duclair
Hayden Wingels Sikura

Forward wise doesn't look too bad for next year, the kiddies got a chance to play in the men's league and will/should be better for it. Fwiw Gusto has actually been playing better in the past 2 weeks? Can he take the next step, boy i hope so.
- BetweenTheDots

Toews is not a top line C anymore and Saad shows up when he wants and Cat still has something to prove... That top line I'm just not excited about.

I'm hoping Harajuku turns out to be something because we need that D to return if the Hawks are going to be any good.

Hartmans was a good gritty kid and he was misused. According to Stan press conference, many teams were after Hartman. It just happens Predators gave us the best offer. I guess there is higher premium trading to your rivals. Hartman with his style will be a force for Predators.
- shidler

Ok, I'm sorry, but I have to jump in on all this Hartman love - and revisionist history about him.

While his rookie year did show promise, he took a major step back this past summer - mainly dropping 10+ pounds - thinking he could be more effective as a speedy skilled forward. And while it was reported that he did this under team management's request, that was nothing more than spin control.

The organization saw him as a replacement for Shaw, but wanted him to make his living around the net, not trying to out skate defenders - which was never his forte - especially after the knee injury he suffered before the draft.

The thought that he became a prima donna coming into camp this past fall is not completely untrue - he did think a summer working with Kane, Schmaltz and Hinostroza would improve his offensive skills, but that was not what the team needed from him. And it's the main reason he was up and down the lineup all season. And it's been said that he was telling some people that Quenneville did this to him to keep his scoring down - so they wouldn't have to pay him as much this off season.

If there is a split in the locker room, I think Quenneville mentioning the other night that money plays may be the leading factor to that split. It's hard to justify benching young players for mistakes, but allowing veterans to make the same mistakes, only to see no decrease in minutes or nights dressing for that matter.

That can definitely split a locker room, but this would not be the first year it has happened here. Quenneville has always had his favorites, and played them over better choices - look no further than #32 in the past, and #10 this year.

And while most people here keep complaining about the deal for Timmonen, Quenneville, the other coaches, and every player in that locker room respected Kimmo, and wanted to see him raise that cup in his final year. That's why he was played, and why they traded for him - not because Bowman was being an idiot - teams and players around the league thought it was a very classy move.

And most people here keep complaining about the contracts for Seabrook, Toews and Kane. What most of you don't take into consideration is each player gives back 15-20 percent of their gross income each year for the 5% escalator. And Hawk management, the agents and the players all took this into consideration when each deal was negotiated. So the next time you complain about these contracts, just remember that Seabrook only sees about $5.85 a year before taxes. Kane and Toews see about $8.9 a year. When you take the escalator into account, you can see that they don't actually get the dollars which hit the cap - which is something I asked about, but never did get a straight answer - basically was told it's "complicated".

Another point, I did speak to someone within the organization - they are playing up the loss of Crawford big time for the team's current standing. But something else was also mentioned - people don't realize just how big of a loss Hossa is - especially for how much of the ice in front of Crawford he defended for 18+ minutes a night. He made life a LOT easier for the defensemen when he was out there - and as a unit, they are missing him more than any of us know.

Also, another thing most of us don't take into account is just how many new and inexperienced faces are in this lineup from even just two years ago. Yes, we all clamor for in his prime Andrew Shaw, but those days are over, and they do miss a player like him. Also, most here screamed about how much Kruger was paid, but you really forget how important he was in both of his Cup runs, especially in 2015 - helping to shut down Anaheim's best scoring lines. Without him, they would not have advanced. And in his prime - scoring 30+ goals a season Patrick Sharp made things a lot easier on that first line for Toews and Hossa - that too has not been replaced. Saad helped in 2015, but he was never that great finisher that Sharp was.

And one last thing - for all of you clamoring for a rebuild - just ask the Edmonton fans how that is going. This year will be their 28th rebuilding and retooling year without a cup, and that's with McDavid still only 21. And you can bet the Hawks will NEVER get the ping pong ball luck the Oilers have seen during this decade - and even with it, Edmonton still can't get it right.

So be careful what you wish for............

It's not just Stan, Q too. There is an amazing lack of recognition for this organization's achievements on all levels on this board- it's as if any stiff with a pulse could have coached and managed this team and roster to 3 Cups this decade. Pretty remarkable, really.
- Davewn

In the entirety of it's history, when you've had so much success as an organization like the Blackhawks have had, it's easy to minimize and overlook the acievements of the last 10 years.

Saad, Panik, and even Toews hasn't looked the part without 81 lighting a fire under them. If we can trade 19 for a bag of pucks and 5mil/yr retained, should do it.
- busmaster

Saad did fine in CBJ with no Hossa there. Not to minimize the loss of Hoss because I do think they miss hm. Even if his goal scoring dipped again this year, he was still playing a solid all around game and as of last season still seemed quick as ever.

If you're trading Toews $5M is a lot of dead Cap space to hang onto.

Also, Harajuku? When did our Finnish dman prospect become Japanese? I assume that's who you mean.

Saad did fine in CBJ with no Hossa there. Not to minimize the loss of Hoss because I do think they miss hm. Even if his goal scoring dipped again this year, he was still playing a solid all around game and as of last season still seemed quick as ever.

If you're trading Toews $5M is a lot of dead Cap space to hang onto.

Also, Harajuku? When did our Finnish dman prospect become Japanese? I assume that's who you mean.
- HawkintheD

Well, if Josh Ho Sang can be a Jewish Chinese Jamaican skater....

I understand that a 1st rounder is the unknown and while Hartman is a fine NHL player, he didn't have a spot in this lineup and this system, nevermind the rumours. Too good (and potentially expensive) to be stuck on 4th line, not a fit for the 3rd line here and not good enough to play above that for a long time. It really doesn't matter how well is he going to do in Nashville or anywhere else, he wasn't going to improve much or be given the space in Chicago.

I remember Rene Bourque being in the same position before his trade to Calgary. He did very well there for a while, but he was never going to get that chance and ice time here. And a 1st with an older prospect is a great return. Yes, Hartman is already established, but that 1st can be used to bring in immediate help in another deal at the draft, if there is something available. Or just make the pick, it is supposed to be a deep draft and somehow, this feels like free money.

I wish it worked out, but to be honest, even when Hartman was playing for the Hogs, it seemed like the organization wasn't sure if/where he is going to fit for the Blackhawks in the future. Good luck to him, but this was a great deal.

Ok, I'm sorry, but I have to jump in on all this Hartman love - and revisionist history about him.

While his rookie year did show promise, he took a major step back this past summer - mainly dropping 10+ pounds - thinking he could be more effective as a speedy skilled forward. And while it was reported that he did this under team management's request, that was nothing more than spin control.

The organization saw him as a replacement for Shaw, but wanted him to make his living around the net, not trying to out skate defenders - which was never his forte - especially after the knee injury he suffered before the draft.

The thought that he became a prima donna coming into camp this past fall is not completely untrue - he did think a summer working with Kane, Schmaltz and Hinostroza would improve his offensive skills, but that was not what the team needed from him. And it's the main reason he was up and down the lineup all season. And it's been said that he was telling some people that Quenneville did this to him to keep his scoring down - so they wouldn't have to pay him as much this off season.

If there is a split in the locker room, I think Quenneville mentioning the other night that money plays may be the leading factor to that split. It's hard to justify benching young players for mistakes, but allowing veterans to make the same mistakes, only to see no decrease in minutes or nights dressing for that matter.

That can definitely split a locker room, but this would not be the first year it has happened here. Quenneville has always had his favorites, and played them over better choices - look no further than #32 in the past, and #10 this year.

And while most people here keep complaining about the deal for Timmonen, Quenneville, the other coaches, and every player in that locker room respected Kimmo, and wanted to see him raise that cup in his final year. That's why he was played, and why they traded for him - not because Bowman was being an idiot - teams and players around the league thought it was a very classy move.

And most people here keep complaining about the contracts for Seabrook, Toews and Kane. What most of you don't take into consideration is each player gives back 15-20 percent of their gross income each year for the 5% escalator. And Hawk management, the agents and the players all took this into consideration when each deal was negotiated. So the next time you complain about these contracts, just remember that Seabrook only sees about $5.85 a year before taxes. Kane and Toews see about $8.9 a year. When you take the escalator into account, you can see that they don't actually get the dollars which hit the cap - which is something I asked about, but never did get a straight answer - basically was told it's "complicated".

Another point, I did speak to someone within the organization - they are playing up the loss of Crawford big time for the team's current standing. But something else was also mentioned - people don't realize just how big of a loss Hossa is - especially for how much of the ice in front of Crawford he defended for 18+ minutes a night. He made life a LOT easier for the defensemen when he was out there - and as a unit, they are missing him more than any of us know.

Also, another thing most of us don't take into account is just how many new and inexperienced faces are in this lineup from even just two years ago. Yes, we all clamor for in his prime Andrew Shaw, but those days are over, and they do miss a player like him. Also, most here screamed about how much Kruger was paid, but you really forget how important he was in both of his Cup runs, especially in 2015 - helping to shut down Anaheim's best scoring lines. Without him, they would not have advanced. And in his prime - scoring 30+ goals a season Patrick Sharp made things a lot easier on that first line for Toews and Hossa - that too has not been replaced. Saad helped in 2015, but he was never that great finisher that Sharp was.

And one last thing - for all of you clamoring for a rebuild - just ask the Edmonton fans how that is going. This year will be their 28th rebuilding and retooling year without a cup, and that's with McDavid still only 21. And you can bet the Hawks will NEVER get the ping pong ball luck the Oilers have seen during this decade - and even with it, Edmonton still can't get it right.

So be careful what you wish for............
- dahawks8819

But the only thing that affects the on-ice play is the cap hit - the cash issue is Rocky’s (and the playets’j problem.

If the cap were set without the escalator - closer to where the actual upper limit would be so that there were no escrow - then teams like Chicago would have been blown up years ago.

Saad did fine in CBJ with no Hossa there. Not to minimize the loss of Hoss because I do think they miss hm. Even if his goal scoring dipped again this year, he was still playing a solid all around game and as of last season still seemed quick as ever.

If you're trading Toews $5M is a lot of dead Cap space to hang onto.

Also, Harajuku? When did our Finnish dman prospect become Japanese? I assume that's who you mean.
- HawkintheD

Hawks are in no position to retain salary on anybody, especially with Hossa's $5M+ LTIR presumably lingering for 3 more years. Maybe his contract is movable with a cap increase next season to a floor team, but can't really count on that at this point. Crawford's long term health is a major wildcard here- if he isn't ready to go next season and starts the year on LTIR, this team looks just as ugly, but another year older. I'm afraid it's going to get worse before it gets better for the next few years, unless Stan can somehow shed salary or the new CBA allows for a buyout or two.

Not that Stan had the assets (or at least the right kind of assets) to pull something like this off but this haul is pretty amazing. From ESPN-

Winners: New York Rangers

The Rangers traded three rentals -- Rick Nash, Michael Grabner and Nick Holden -- as well as captain Ryan McDonagh and center J.T. Miller. They did so after declaring they were purging the roster in an effort to rebuild and reload the team, having raised the white flag on the season.

Their haul: Forward Vladislav Namestnikov, 25, who has 123 points in 263 NHL games; center Ryan Spooner, 26, with 144 points in 254 NHL games; 20-year-old WHL defenseman Libor Hajek; 20-year-old KHL defenseman Yegor Rykov; 20-year-old NCAA defenseman Ryan Lindgren; 19-year-old WHL center Brett Howden; 24-year-old AHL prospect Rob O'Gara; the Tampa Bay Lightning's 2018 first-round pick; the Lightning's 2019 second-round pick, which becomes a first if they win the Stanley Cup in the next two seasons; the Boston Bruins' 2018 first-round pick; the New Jersey Devils' 2018 second-round pick; a 2018 third-round pick from Boston; and a 2019 seventh-round pick from the Bruins -- which is, of course, the key to everything.

*NEW* Blog up: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=91331

So over the next 6 weeks. We went Nash to lose. IE would prefer they play #2-#3 in Central. the WEST wild card looks weak. Want Boston to win so they get a good pairing and get out of the 1st round. Northeastern is going to make the tournament so we need them to lose in the sweet 16 or elite 8!. Sign Sikura and get to # 7 draft slot and I will be happy with the rest of the season.

Routing for EDM, ISLANDERS,RANGERS(they could be really bad) CAR, PANTHERS,WINGS,HABS,VAN, would love for us to get in the TOP 7. Need to start sitting SEABS and KEITH on back to backs. Also get them both off the PP and PK and see if the young guys can handle it. Actually if we want to tank Keith on the PP and SEABS on the PK makes a lot of sense.

Well, if Josh Ho Sang can be a Jewish Chinese Jamaican skater....
- StLBravesFan

There is a large Chinese-Jamaican community in Toronto/Southern Ontario.

Ok, I'm sorry, but I have to jump in on all this Hartman love - and revisionist history about him.

While his rookie year did show promise, he took a major step back this past summer - mainly dropping 10+ pounds - thinking he could be more effective as a speedy skilled forward. And while it was reported that he did this under team management's request, that was nothing more than spin control.

The organization saw him as a replacement for Shaw, but wanted him to make his living around the net, not trying to out skate defenders - which was never his forte - especially after the knee injury he suffered before the draft.

The thought that he became a prima donna coming into camp this past fall is not completely untrue - he did think a summer working with Kane, Schmaltz and Hinostroza would improve his offensive skills, but that was not what the team needed from him. And it's the main reason he was up and down the lineup all season. And it's been said that he was telling some people that Quenneville did this to him to keep his scoring down - so they wouldn't have to pay him as much this off season.

If there is a split in the locker room, I think Quenneville mentioning the other night that money plays may be the leading factor to that split. It's hard to justify benching young players for mistakes, but allowing veterans to make the same mistakes, only to see no decrease in minutes or nights dressing for that matter.

That can definitely split a locker room, but this would not be the first year it has happened here. Quenneville has always had his favorites, and played them over better choices - look no further than #32 in the past, and #10 this year.

And while most people here keep complaining about the deal for Timmonen, Quenneville, the other coaches, and every player in that locker room respected Kimmo, and wanted to see him raise that cup in his final year. That's why he was played, and why they traded for him - not because Bowman was being an idiot - teams and players around the league thought it was a very classy move.

And most people here keep complaining about the contracts for Seabrook, Toews and Kane. What most of you don't take into consideration is each player gives back 15-20 percent of their gross income each year for the 5% escalator. And Hawk management, the agents and the players all took this into consideration when each deal was negotiated. So the next time you complain about these contracts, just remember that Seabrook only sees about $5.85 a year before taxes. Kane and Toews see about $8.9 a year. When you take the escalator into account, you can see that they don't actually get the dollars which hit the cap - which is something I asked about, but never did get a straight answer - basically was told it's "complicated".

Another point, I did speak to someone within the organization - they are playing up the loss of Crawford big time for the team's current standing. But something else was also mentioned - people don't realize just how big of a loss Hossa is - especially for how much of the ice in front of Crawford he defended for 18+ minutes a night. He made life a LOT easier for the defensemen when he was out there - and as a unit, they are missing him more than any of us know.

Also, another thing most of us don't take into account is just how many new and inexperienced faces are in this lineup from even just two years ago. Yes, we all clamor for in his prime Andrew Shaw, but those days are over, and they do miss a player like him. Also, most here screamed about how much Kruger was paid, but you really forget how important he was in both of his Cup runs, especially in 2015 - helping to shut down Anaheim's best scoring lines. Without him, they would not have advanced. And in his prime - scoring 30+ goals a season Patrick Sharp made things a lot easier on that first line for Toews and Hossa - that too has not been replaced. Saad helped in 2015, but he was never that great finisher that Sharp was.

And one last thing - for all of you clamoring for a rebuild - just ask the Edmonton fans how that is going. This year will be their 28th rebuilding and retooling year without a cup, and that's with McDavid still only 21. And you can bet the Hawks will NEVER get the ping pong ball luck the Oilers have seen during this decade - and even with it, Edmonton still can't get it right.

So be careful what you wish for............
- dahawks8819

I liked Hartman but it was the Hartman I wanted him to be rather than the Hartman he actually was. He was his own worst enemy. You can’t have controversy of your own creation all the time - it gets tiring. There are penalties and then there are penalties so stupid as to be incomprehensible.

Regarding Kimonen his situation only plays the way it does because the Hawks actually won the Cup and Kimonen got to raise the Cup. This was fine with no help from Kimonen. If the Hawks has lost the great Kimonen misadventure would have been considered a disaster. Watch that revisionism.

Regarding Sharp he has been treated like garbage this year not preferred. He didn’t loose all his skill and speed overnight. If he had just been left alone he’d have finished with 20 plus. Especially true is he had played up the order. Why couldn’t he play with Kane especially if playing DeBrincat with Kane was viewed as a sin.

I am just so confused. If Q is the greatest coach around (because he is a hall-of-fame coach), how will Torts use him and develop him better? Don't forget, he will be watching the biggest hack on skates (Subban) on a daily basis. He may turn into a bigger hack than he already is.
- powerenforcer

Wrong Team Power.